Your turnover of 2.5 million , and profit of 1 million last year , don't tell me you've forgotten about it already , we spent hours arguing about it , it was the reason I left the Widnes MB alone for months

We've never actually got to the bottom of why you left in a huff. No-one was really taking any notice of you, except to say that you were like a ing stuck record. This has very little to do with my personal attitude towards you.

You’re not making any sense.

He went down in my estimation when his arguments became less about the inner workings of the RFL and more about his fellow championship fans. The reason he can't back up his argument about "widnes fans" becoming arrogant is because there are not nearly enough to justify calling us out on it. The main argument, which has been directed at people who think we had no rights to get a franchise, is that we are the club in the best position. It was never an argument about the righteousness of P & R or licensing.

No you've lost me there , I have never suggested arrogance , temporary insanity yes , arrogance no

I have never suggested that you were anything other than the obvious , in fact only club in a position to successfully move up to SL from the Championship

However in the last 48 hours I have detected a change in general opinion of the Widnes fans from franchising being a bad thing , to being a good thing

Just telling it as I see it

Unless you back it up with something, it is totally meaningless. Just saying it doesn't make it the reality. I am not arguing with you about it because I doubt you, I am arguing with you because I know it is an absolute lie and that there is not a shred of evidence for it.

Look, there are advantages and disadvantages of the licence system. For SL clubs with a 3 year licence, it’s great. For Championship clubs it’s loving disaster!

That’s why I and the vast majority of Widnes fans are against it; or at least the way it has been implemented and abused by the RFL. You simply must have been confused by Widnes fans being elated at the decision or something, because I have seen no change in attitude at all.

Any way. I'm going to watch the last half hour of the Broncos v panthers game I've recorded and then I'm off to bed. I think I've had enough of you for one night.

The Lions aren't a club. It is the nickname of the Wellington provincial representative side.

A right royal cop out.

When Richard Lewis announced the name of Widnes as licence winners it was a joyful moment and a huge relief.However for me,that moment cannot compare to the final whistle at Rochdale in 2001 when we beat Oldham at Spotland and when Martin Crompton was presented with the trophy.It's still P&R for me but as everyone ought to know by now,that's not the game anymore.As has been pointed out numerous times now,the Widnes chairman found out exactly what the RFL required from potential candidates and played that game and won.Other clubs stuck to the same plan and lost.Too bad.Hopefully they will change tack now in their quest for 2015.Featherstone I think maybe have already started that process and never even applied this time.No arrogance or big headedness from this Widnes fan,just joy and relief tinged with sadness to be leaving behind such great clubs and fans.

Yes and they continue to play in the same competition they did before , the Hurricanes and all the other ' super ' clubs were all brand new clubs , that is how SL was to be originally , but some clubs didn't want that , they considered themselves above that

That is why it was SL Europe , it was meant to be a new tier of the sport above the competition already in place , but played in the summer with the original Championship continuing in winter

The fact is that the Championship was a dead duck before licensing ever came about, this was a big part of the problem. It's all very well and good saying bring P & R back but it could be far more damaging to the game of RL as a whole seeing strong clubs ruined by relegation to a division that can be the death of clubs if they are left in for too long. People have this rose tinted glass view of relegation from the 80's and 90's that wasn't what P & R had become in the 21st century. It was a farce where many clubs were competing but openly saying they wouldn't go for promotion.

I understand the damage this is doing to certain clubs, which is why I am not a complete fan of licensing. I think for reasons you've outlined that some clubs will find it difficult to survive without P & R but you've also exaggerated the situation. We had many clubs getting under 1,000 for years before licensing. Hunslet probably won the league with crowds not much higher than that.

Overall licensing at least guarantees some stability and drives up standards but is far from perfect. We shouldn't have a situation where Leigh face a minimum of 5 years before they can apply. I would like the RFL to admit that we have different types of teams and to ring fence the expansion clubs. Then I would like a more fluid system of licenses between SL and the Championship but based largely on off the field criteria. Say, make full licensing every 4 years for all clubs but any C grade heartland clubs are reassessed in the middle of this after 2 years against top performing Championship clubs. I'm not sure I'd keep the on the field requirement as strict as it is but it should still be there.

I'd also disagree that they've made on the field worthless. They were unlucky that Widnes met the sheer minimum that they could. I think they assumed that any club meeting the on the field criteria would probably have performed better than Widnes did anyway.

However it's time to stop blaming Widnes and making out like this was some shock. It was clear from day one that on the field was very much secondary. Anybody who thought otherwise must have been living on a different planet.

Promotion and relegation decided on financial matters alone. That's what you get for selling your sport to a moose knuckle kapitalist bullshine-monger like Rupert Murdoch.

As ye sow ....

Here's one - from my bessie mate Vikingman





Didn't take long for him to take his position in the ivory tower. I'll expect to read much more - even before you start your stint in SL

This is roogbeh leeeg. The greetest game with the greetest fans alreet? This is like last tme, all over again. Those that lose p1ss and b1tch and moan and whinge and accuse everyone else of being
a) Cheats.
b) Unworthy.
c) RFL favourites.
d) There due to bribes from successful club's sugar daddy.
e) Full of Aussies.
f) Previously bankrupt.
g) Breaking the salary cap.
h) Liars.
i) Without supporters.
j) Resident in a ty stadium.

Whereas those smug supporters whose club meets certain financial criteria believe themselves to be
a) The epitome of all that is good about Roogbeh Leeg.
b) The ONLY team there on merit alone.
c) Historically superior to all other clubs.
d) On the verge of winning the SooperDooperPooperScooperLeeg.

same old shiite, different licensing period.

Waah waah waah versus smirk smirk smirk.

Is that it?



I rest my case, m'lud!

That's pretty much how it is. Wonderful language.

I remember Fax raiding Leigh of their decent players when we were in SL and i didn't give a stuff. You adapt to your environment. I don't think i'll be swapping my Championship flat cap for a Super League top hat anytime soon though. Halifax, first and foremost though.

Gotta get off the bottom of the table. That's all that's occupying my immediate thoughts where roogbeh leeeg is concerned

Well I cant wait to see how many imports Widnes are allowed to have to start with, just to make them competitive. With this in mind, when it is announced, we will see how them been promoted will be for the better for the game, especially since they have proved they cannot compete on the pitch, apart from winning the 4th Grade competition (1. SL, 2. Chal Cup, 3. Champ, 4. NR Cup

Well I cant wait to see how many imports Widnes are allowed to have to start with, just to make them competitive. With this in mind, when it is announced, we will see how them been promoted will be for the better for the game, especially since they have proved they cannot compete on the pitch, apart from winning the 4th Grade competition (1. SL, 2. Chal Cup, 3. Champ, 4. NR Cup)

Your club have had a good run,what is it 12 years of SL and SL money?What do they have to show for it?Jack Shit.Time for a stronger club to replace a weaker one.That's the beauty of licensing.

Hang on!

You've been moaning that our NRC win got us through and calling it a farce, now its a crying shame if Fax weren't allowed to apply if they won nothing during the process. Which is it?

You can come watch us for a few matches, get a feel for it

The problem is, that logic applies to Wakefield and Quins. However the RFL will not act in the same way will they? This is what makes licensing so debatable, the RFL will always give themselves a get out of jail free card, when it comes to Quins, Catalans and Celtic.

I suggest you do a little research bbefore you post.
2nd, 2 other play offs finishes, 1 CC final, never last or in a relegation position and not the "worst supported team" in SL (see 2003 halifax)..............no to mention cockneys awarded England caps at all levels...and one even poached by St Helens. (Did I mention we didn't break the cap either)
Bitter Fax Fans will always have an excuse...always have someone to point the finger at....but they had their chance..they blew it and they have found their level......

Not that it matters, but...is Quins/Broncos average SL attendance for all seasons greater than Faxs?

To be fair that was after getting tonked week in, week out. When you've won your first five games and you still can't get over 3,000 then that's a genuine concern for the officials at Harlequins - well, it should be anyway. The Quins need to pick your marketing brains mate - lord knows you've offered it to them on a plate on many threads.

Not all Fax fans are bitter - many will pick holes in the RFL's methods but most of the savvy know the score and will accept the direction our club takes.

as many as wakefield are allowed. simples. 4th grade or not, its one more than wakefield have managed in my lifetime.