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| Quote ="dally messenger"im not trolling.
how come other sports clubs were able to do it?'"
They weren't. People only watched the local sports teams until mass ownership of cars meant that they could chose which team they wanted to follow and televisation meant you could be an armchair fan.
Quote how come wigan and leeds were able to do it?'"
They didn't. There is a direct trsin line from my home town to Headingley, it takes less than 30 minutes, yet there is no rugby league played in my home town and never has been.
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| Quote ="Hedgehog King"They weren't. People only watched the local sports teams until mass ownership of cars meant that they could chose which team they wanted to follow and televisation meant you could be an armchair fan.
They didn't. There is a direct trsin line from my home town to Headingley, it takes less than 30 minutes, yet there is no rugby league played in my home town and never has been.'"
Do yourself a favour and stop! It won't compute. He won't understand. And if he does understand and realise he is wrong, he will reply with either nothing or this...
" "
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| Quote ="dally messenger"so leeds dont play RL any more? last time they played the sport they averaged more than 14,000. if they didnt play at a dump they could easily get double that.
if you think RL should stay a minority sport for the next century good for you
:2r5q79gmi think its up to the RFL to try and grow the game a lot.[/
Good idea , do you think if they ask nicely the government will change the laws on gambling in this country so we can fund our sport in the same way that RL in Australia has been ' bailed out ' for decades ?
Without the money from the ' pokey ' machines RL in oz would be on a par with NL's
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Quote ="bowes"If we could afford it then under very special circumstances it could be justified. However, the game can't
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -mess.html
If anything we might have to go back to 12 and cut the salary cap at some point. We don't have money to bail out a club like Crusaders, though I would hope to see something done to ensure a Championship or Championship 1 club stays around in South Wales. Before you say anything the same goes if a heartland club (or Harlequins) folds, just Crusaders are the one most at risk.
The real problem is the removal of the 50% of turnover rule to just have a flat salary cap. That is the only flat cap harming the game and it causes clubs (like Hull KR) to recklessly overspend in the name of success when they couldn't before'"
im showing how other sports back themselves when it comes to expansion.
then theres you guys.
a marked contrast
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Quote ="bowes"If we could afford it then under very special circumstances it could be justified. However, the game can't
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -mess.html
If anything we might have to go back to 12 and cut the salary cap at some point. We don't have money to bail out a club like Crusaders, though I would hope to see something done to ensure a Championship or Championship 1 club stays around in South Wales. Before you say anything the same goes if a heartland club (or Harlequins) folds, just Crusaders are the one most at risk.
The real problem is the removal of the 50% of turnover rule to just have a flat salary cap. That is the only flat cap harming the game and it causes clubs (like Hull KR) to recklessly overspend in the name of success when they couldn't before'"
im showing how other sports back themselves when it comes to expansion.
then theres you guys.
a marked contrast
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| Quote ="Starbug"Quote ="dally messenger"so leeds dont play RL any more? last time they played the sport they averaged more than 14,000. if they didnt play at a dump they could easily get double that.
if you think RL should stay a minority sport for the next century good for you
i think its up to the RFL to try and grow the game a lot.[/quote
Good idea , do you think if they ask nicely the government will change the laws on gambling in this country so we can fund our sport in the same way that RL in Australia has been ' bailed out ' for decades ?
Without the money from the ' pokey ' machines RL in oz would be on a par with NL's'" '"
there are no RL clubs in australia as poor as leigh
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| Quote ="a.n Other"Now i know you dont have any credibility on here anyway, but that comment is absolute rubbish. Even for you.
Oh and you really shouldnt comment on expansion when your not interested in doing it in your own country. Let us worry about our competition and you worry about yours.'"
so i have no credibility and you keep trying to debate with me?
stop now
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| Quote ="dally messenger"so i have no credibility '"
I agree
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| Quote ="Roy Haggerty"A wonderful rant. And entirely based on the premise that I argued that everyone who opposed Celtic opposed them for the same reason, and all opposed Catalans as well. Yet sadly, if you are able to read English, it's quite clear that's not what I said at all. Try reading again. I don't do blanket stereotypes. That's why I used the phrase :
"there's some double-think going on which suits the [iprejudices of those who are ultimately opposed to any expansion [/ibecause they fear that it threatens the place of smaller "traditional" clubs"
Your assumption is that this means anyone who was lukewarm on Celtic. Yet it clearly does not say that. Which makes the rest of what you wrote ultimately irrlevant.
I also used the phrase : "There are people on these boards who were implacable in their opposition to Catalans". Note that I didn't claim, at any point, that all those who opposed the Celtic move opposed Catalans.
So your rant about generalising is, I'm afraid, based on a mistaken reading on your part of what I said. Which is a shame, because you clearly put some effort into it.'"
its a breath of fresh air seeing someone posting this kind of stuff.
im actually a little jealous i wasnt able to put out my thought in such a considered manner as your first post.
all these people claiming they knew LEs Cats were going to succeed beforehand are full of it
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| Quote ="dally messenger"icon_lol.gif
so even when you are shown up you still stick with the argument.
brilliant
the question asked was an excellent one and your silly answer only highlighted it.'"
Where the hell have I been shown up you donut?
Jeez, I must be typing in Swahili. I was asked a quaetion and I gave an answer based on my argument that has been consistent all along.
I will say it again, now read slowly;
It is nigh on impossible to simply create a new team from scratch and expect it to compete at the highest level in rag time.
Those who have tried it in the past without the iron will and pots of cash have unfortunately found out the hard way.
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| Quote ="dally messenger"all these people claiming they knew LEs Cats were going to succeed beforehand are full of it'"
It wasn't that difficult. Les Catalans playing in a region where they play RL. Merged from two RL playing clubs. They stood more of a chance than these:
Celtic: playing in a region where they don't play RL. Where RU is king.
Paris: playing in a region where they don't play RL.
London: playing in a region where they don't play RL.
Is it that simple? Possibly. It is mighty difficult planting a sport in a region that doesn't play it or has no history or affinity to it. The NFL, with it's vast amount of wealth couldn't manage it - London Monarchs anyone?
This is the situation now but not necessarily for the future. We are to be encouraged by the amount of RL being played at junior level in the capital and who knows where this may take the game there. One thing is for sure - for expansionism to work we have to play the long game. Patience, faith and lots of cash is required.
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| Quote ="littlerich"It wasn't that difficult. Les Catalans playing in a region where they play RL. Merged from two RL playing clubs. They stood more of a chance than these:
Celtic: playing in a region where they don't play RL. Where RU is king.
Paris: playing in a region where they don't play RL.
London: playing in a region where they don't play RL.
Is it that simple? Possibly. It is mighty difficult planting a sport in a region that doesn't play it or has no history or affinity to it. The NFL, with it's vast amount of wealth couldn't manage it - London Monarchs anyone?
This is the situation now but not necessarily for the future. We are to be encouraged by the amount of RL being played at junior level in the capital and who knows where this may take the game there. One thing is for sure - for expansionism to work we have to play the long game. Patience, faith and lots of cash is required.'"
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| Quote ="dally messenger"icon_lol.gif
so even when you are shown up you still stick with the argument.
brilliant
the question asked was an excellent one and your silly answer only highlighted it.'"
Further to my earlier reply, Roys question may have been excellent but where did I say a club had to start from the amateur level to warrant his question?
Amateur teams are set up, by and large in neighbourhoods of towns/cities usually to represent a group of friends or workmates from that area, not as a flagship club of that town/city/province.
It is a whole different argument than setting up a professional outfit and one which requires, compared to a professional outfit, minimal investment and resources.
HTH.
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| Quote Quote ="dally messenger"so leeds dont play RL any more? last time they played the sport they averaged more than 14,000. if they didnt play at a dump they could easily get double that.
if you think RL should stay a minority sport for the next century good for you
i think its up to the RFL to try and grow the game a lot.[/quote '" '"
Good idea , do you think if they ask nicely the government will change the laws on gambling in this country so we can fund our sport in the same way that RL in Australia has been ' bailed out ' for decades ?
Without the money from the ' pokey ' machines RL in oz would be on a par with NL's
Do you want to try again ?
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| Quote ="Redchemic"icon_confused.gif
Where the hell have I been shown up you donut?
Jeez, I must be typing in Swahili. I was asked a quaetion and I gave an answer based on my argument that has been consistent all along.
I will say it again, now read slowly;
It is nigh on impossible to simply create a new team from scratch and expect it to compete at the highest level in rag time.
Those who have tried it in the past without the iron will and pots of cash have unfortunately found out the hard way.'"
you were asked a really good question which exposed you.
keep squirming, im enjoying it.
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| Quote ="littlerich"It wasn't that difficult. Les Catalans playing in a region where they play RL. Merged from two RL playing clubs. They stood more of a chance than these:
Celtic: playing in a region where they don't play RL. Where RU is king.
Paris: playing in a region where they don't play RL.
London: playing in a region where they don't play RL.
Is it that simple? Possibly. It is mighty difficult planting a sport in a region that doesn't play it or has no history or affinity to it. The NFL, with it's vast amount of wealth couldn't manage it - London Monarchs anyone?
This is the situation now but not necessarily for the future. We are to be encouraged by the amount of RL being played at junior level in the capital and who knows where this may take the game there. One thing is for sure - for expansionism to work we have to play the long game. Patience, faith and lots of cash is required.'"
all i read on internet forums from people like you was that france was a waste of time because PSG failed. none of you guys ever said its got a good chance of working
when low and behold it did work out you changed the argument to make them the exception to the rule ie they only worked because they really were a heartland team after all
as was pointed out before, RU was far more dominant in peripgnan. USAP have a massive budget on players and indeed, denied the ground for use to Les Cats.
but you can make it up as you go along
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| Quote ="Redchemic"Further to my earlier reply, Roys question may have been excellent but where did I say a club had to start from the amateur level to warrant his question?
Amateur teams are set up, by and large in neighbourhoods of towns/cities usually to represent a group of friends or workmates from that area, not as a flagship club of that town/city/province.
It is a whole different argument than setting up a professional outfit and one which requires, compared to a professional outfit, minimal investment and resources.
HTH.'"
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| Quote ="dally messenger"all i read on internet forums from people like you was that france was a waste of time because PSG failed.'"
Listen di[ick[/ihead. Trawl through my posts and see where i've said that. I've NEVER said France was a waste of time - NEVER. You're making things up to feed your pathetic trolling posts. I've hinted that Paris would be a difficult process and i wouldn't advocate doing this again but i've NEVER said [uFrance [/uwas a waste of time.
Quote ="dally messenger"when low and behold it did work out [size=150you[/size changed the argument'"
Did i? Find the post(s) where this has happened?
Quote ="dally messenger" but you can make it up as you go along '"
I'll leave that to you - you do it so well.
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| Quote ="dally messenger"all i read on internet forums from people like you was that france was a waste of time because PSG failed. none of you guys ever said its got a good chance of working
when low and behold it did work out you changed the argument to make them the exception to the rule ie they only worked because they really were a heartland team after all
as was pointed out before, RU was far more dominant in peripgnan. USAP have a massive budget on players and indeed, denied the ground for use to Les Cats.
but you can make it up as you go along'"
See there you go again. Commenting on expansion when you don't support it in your own country. Corkcappers like you should be ashamed of your attitude towards expansion.
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| Quote ="littlerich"Listen di[ick[/ihead. Trawl through my posts and see where i've said that. I've NEVER said France was a waste of time - NEVER. You're making things up to feed your pathetic trolling posts. I've hinted that Paris would be a difficult process and i wouldn't advocate doing this again but i've NEVER said [uFrance [/uwas a waste of time.
Did i? Find the post(s) where this has happened?
I'll leave that to you - you do it so well.'"
yes or no - are you in favour of expansion in france?
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| Quote ="dally messenger"yes or no - are you in favour of expansion in france?'"
Please explain your hypothesis that somehow "poor clubs" have prevented geographical expansion of the game.
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| Quote ="dally messenger"yes or no - are you in favour of expansion in france?'"
Yes. Absolutely. Add to that Wales, Scotland & Ireland but bearing this in mind ........................
Quote ="littlerich"One thing is for sure - for expansionism to work we have to play the long game. Patience, faith and lots of cash is required.'"
Without fanning the flames of your already misguided take on people's thoughts i would also like to see man colonise Jupiter but i don't think we should send seven astronauts up in the Space Shuttle this year to try and achieve it. It just might not work because i don't think NASA is ready yet.
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| Quote ="littlerich"Yes. Absolutely. Add to that Wales, Scotland & Ireland but bearing this in mind ........................
Without fanning the flames of your already misguided take on people's thoughts i would also like to see man colonise Jupiter but i don't think we should send seven astronauts up in the Space Shuttle this year to try and achieve it. It just might not work because i don't think NASA is ready yet.'"
thats a no to me.
being in favour of expansion means in reality not in theory which has so many impossible conditions that it eliminates expansion clubs from SL.
the RFL has tried 5 expansion clubs : CC, Quins and LC, gateshead, and PSG.
only one has been an outstanding success whilst the others really have some success and some failure.
im happy if the RFL continues trying for top down expansion clubs and can only produce one outstanding success for 5 clubs that arent like that.
theres nothing wrong with trying and failing.
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| Quote ="Barnacle Bill"Please explain your hypothesis that somehow "poor clubs" have prevented geographical expansion of the game.'"
my contention is poor clubs have no one to blame but themselves for being that way
a bit like people on social security rely on the government to survive, they rely on the RFL to survive rather than getting off their backsides and working for it
quite a few clubs have managed to grow from small status to much larger status, especially Huddersfield and Hull KR. if other clubs cant match it, its their fault.
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| Quote ="dally messenger"theres nothing wrong with trying and failing.'"
But that takes up somebody's cash and it sends a message to other possible future "investors" .
...................and when i talk about expansion, i'm not talking about "in theory". I'm talking about laying the groundwork in development. Putting down roots. The long haul. Those looking for a quick product off the shelf are going to be sorely disappointed.
Once again, please remove Les Catalans from your examples - Rugby League is already played in that region.
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| Quote ="littlerich"But that takes up somebody's cash and it sends a message to other possible future "investors" .
...................and when i talk about expansion, i'm not talking about "in theory". I'm talking about laying the groundwork in development. Putting down roots. The long haul. Those looking for a quick product off the shelf are going to be sorely disappointed.
Once again, please remove Les Catalans from your examples - Rugby League is already played in that region.'"
stop talking nonsense.
widnes, leeds and wigan have all taken peoples money and it hasnt hurt them a bit
you place conditions on expansion clubs which are impossible to fullfill thereby meaning we dont get any in SL.
nice work.
lets play the same game with heartland clubs
the only ones allowed in SL should have all seater grounds with capacity of 20,000 and average crowds of 10,000
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