Well said. There are a lot of people who don't support the national side in RL. Personally, every year at around this time I get a feeling of pride and genuinely get it in my head (don't laugh) that we can beat the Aussies and the Kiwis.

I'm sure come the end of November I will be proved wrong but I'm going to enjoy the next few weeks regardless.

well you only have to look at the kiwis to show anything can happen on the day its hardly like england rl is a team full no abilty rugby players is it, fans cant really influence the on field performance but they can there attitudes and this will effect the tournement more than england getting rolled over every match bar wales.

This is the first time i have felt this passionate about england maybe its due to the fact england ru has just failed or maybe because i am in another countrie with alot of nationalities and this makes me feel more pride in england i don't know but i know if every rl fan felt this we could show england isn't an amerturish competition...

listening to the aussie commentators all year has ed me off as much as anything they pay no attention to internationals just well this is an origin class player not this a kangaroo player,, the fact they hold an in country origin seriers in great regard than the internationals is wrong

I think that because England players come from just a handful of teams the interest has been diluted throughout the wider Rugby League fanbase. The likes of swinton,Hunslet and other teams that used to regularly supply international players probably switch off a llittle bit because they feel alienated from the game at the top level. Other sports such as cricket struggle to generate the same patriotic fervour due to half the team being South Africans. As for the England football team, do the likes of Ashley Cole etc really make you want to support the English team? I'm also being turned off from international Rugby League because of the way some players and high ranking figures tell us domestic fixtures should be cut so the players can play more international games to become more "competitive" against the Aussies. I'm afraid our infatuation with the Aussies is becoming a bit obsessive, it's certainly not the be all and end all some of the so called experts seem to believe. I'd happily cut this four nations rubbish in exchange for proper tours like the Aussies and Kiwis used to take part in. Sadly TV rights and financial aspects will ensure it never happens again.

No idea what it is, but I struggle to have the same passion for internationals (both rugby and football). Maybe I generate too much into following Cas & LUFC. I'm going to Wembley on the 5th & I kind of feel like its a friendly, there just isn't much excitement. lets say its 18-18 going in to the last 10, of course I'll want England to win, but i wouldn't be absolutely bricking it as I would be if Cas were in that position.

Fed up of people banging on 'blah blah Rangi Chase isn't English, Jack Reed's not english'

Look at the England cricket team!! Kevin Petersen, Jonathan Trott, Adil Rashid, Ravi Bopara, Eion Morgan, Craig Kieswetter etc etc - I didn't hear people saying 'yeah well we've won the ashes but I don't care because half of em aren't english'

Exactly - after all, what's the definition of English? To take me as an example, I was born in North London, my mother was Australian and I've Welsh, Irish and Belgium in my ancestry.

I don't think the lack of support for England RL has anything to do with patriotism really. English RL has had a long and illustrious history of being very parochial. Folk will say the RFL have ruined it for them or Rangi Chase has or there was 'pride' in the GB jersey, but not the England one or whatever. There is a long list of reasons why folk will say they don't get excited by or follow England and none of them are really true. Take for instance the argument that folk won't support the national team because they don't like what the RFL and the backroom staff have done with it. Well, I don't really like how Wakefield Trinity is and has been run and aren't over the moon about the recruitment, but I'm not going to stop supporting them. I would imagine the same is true for most other fans.

The reason why we don't seem to get excited about the national team playing is because historically RL fans have never really taken to the national side. Aside from the 90's when interest really picked up, if you look back in time at attendances and compare them to other show piece matches you see there has never been the same level of interest.

Parochialism is the main issue. Folk support clubs far more passionately because the clubs are integral to the communities they exist in, they're the backbone of the comunity. And, I'd also argue that there is little mobility in and out of some of these communities, which galvanises more strongly the sense of community identity. If your community is your world, then your nation becomes foreign.

I suppose the other issue to do with parochialism is a much more historic one, one that goes back to when the Northern Union split from the Rugby Football Union. At that time the North was pretty much a different country to the South. There wasn't just minor differences in demographics, but huge chasms of difference in governance, culture and language. The Northern clubs quest for independence from the RFU comes from the differences between the two regions and also the desire of many Northern towns and cities for autonomy from London. This as well galvanises the sense of community and regional identity. Therefore, in a sense if you embrace a national team, you're embracing the South and you're embracing London, which means, in a way, you're denying your sense of local and regional identity and you're denying your sense of autonomy.

I am proud first & foremost to be a Northerner, will support any national side that has Northerners in the team.

Without a doubt "Land of Hope and Glory" should be the national anthem. That, or "Rule Brittania".....God save the queen is dated now.

I am as proud of being English as I am of having 10 toes. Both are happenstances of birth over which I had no control: it's not like they're choices I've made or achievements I've managed, to be proud of.

For some people though, being English is an act of choice: Chase, Reed, Heighington … they have got something to feel proud about. Or ashamed of. Or not all that fussed over. Either way it's an actual decision they've made.

On the broader issue - remember the good old saying: home is where the heart is. I'm equally happy if that is where someone lives, or where they were born or where their family roots are - and I see no problem with someone representing their home (where they live, where they were born, where their family hails from). I'm certainly not arrogant enough to presume that I can define what is and isn't 'really' English and enforce that on someone else.

You could have been more selective with your examples - Rashid was born in Bradford and Bopara in Forest Gate.

I'm proud to be English and rugby will never have an impact on that

And Pietersen, being an Afrikaans name, is spelled with an 'i'

Definitely...i'm English , why would i not be proud to be ....?

No worries - but i don't think players should be playing against England in June and then for them in November. Your lad Rangi for example, has played for New Zealand Maori, New Zealand A's & Exiles RL. It's just my humble opinion, but i don't agree with it. Pick one and stick with it or else it'll make a mockery of the "International" competition.

I get quite despondent with International RL in this country. For no other reason than the lack of support we seem to generate.

For me, International RL is the pinnacle of the game, filling Wembley with people makes sponsors stand up and say, ey up, there's some people interested in that game, lets get our name on it... not so much a CC final or a GF, but the papers/media really stand up for an international game.

An interesting thing was on the Stephen Fry show about language where he was quoting a guy that said he's a patriot, but not a nationalist, that when asked what that meant said, he loves his country (patriotism) but does not hate other countries.

This is so easily transposed to RL and the club first mentality that means we can't sell out LSV for an elite international tournament. We may as well disappear up our own backsides sadly! To see people come out and say there are only bothered about their club, their players being ok and not selected and that they'll not go to any games saddens me.

Ok, admittedly I do think that it should be GB with Eng and Wal, and Ire in a selection for GB&I play off to play in a trinations with Aus, NZ, Samoa, PNG et al.

Yes I am proud to be English and would love to be able to represent my Country at International level at any sport. However I get the distinct feeling that a number of professional RL players don’t feel the same and it is this that is having a damaging effect on the success of the England RL team and it’s ability to play in front of a sold out crowds on a regular basis.

Year after year we have players who are picked for International duty who drop out because of injury or because they need an operation. I have no problem with this happening when treatment/operations are needed as a matter of urgency, however the fact is far too often these are niggling injuries that players have played with for weeks and would continue to do so if they still had a chance of winning a Challenge Cup or Grand Final winners medal for their club. As I say, I don’t have a problem of players dropping out for genuine reasons but I do feel far too many players use injuries as an excuse for ducking the challenge of facing the Aussies and Kiwis.

I think most fans realise this also and are becoming a little sick of players attitude towards representing England. I remember saving up around £2500 in my late teens in the hope of going and watching GB tour Australia in 1996 and was gutted when that tour never materialised due to the Super League war, fast forward to today and I wouldn’t watch England if they were playing in my back garden.

I'd agree that this is frustrating but assume that their main employers, i.e. the clubs, pretty much have the ultimate say over when players are operated upon.

A fact that isn't lost on me, but most Aussies would run on broken glass and through a brick wall to wear the green and gold and would more than likely be supported by their club.

The fact is our players/clubs don't have the same passion for International RL as the Aussies do. With this in mind, it doesn't take a genius to figure out why we are so far off the pace and the general RL public don't get all giddy at the prospect of watching our National team play.

It's a real shame, but unfortunately true.

Eh? NRL clubs are notorious for withdrawing their players from international duty for ops etc

The single most destructive element to international rugby league and to the RLIF is the ARL and their reluctance to take international rugby league seriously because they are far more concerned with club rugby and Origin.

I don't think the Aussies have anywhere near as much passion for the international game as the English. They have a lot of passion for Origin, but not the same internationals, hence part of the reason why the ARL generally don't care. The Aussies approach to internationals is that of bloody minded, machine-like professionalism. England or GB tend to lose because they have so much passion and emotion that their nerves get the better of them.

I am as proud to be English as any Scot is to be Scottish or any Yank to be American, I don't however stand for or sing the national anthem as I am not a royalist and like most countries we have a lot to be proud of and a lot to be ashamed of. I hate the EDF, BNP and all they stand for and the misuse of our flag for nationalist and racist purposes makes me sick. I accept that to be English is not a colour or a birth thing, but where you feel at home.

From an RL point of view, I cannot get into the England thing and would prefer to revert to GB and Ashes tours (as posted elswhere), its just my opinion and I always prefer to see England do well in ANY sport and hope we win the 4 nations.

Where is this passion you speak of? LSV has yet to sell out in an area relatively local to two of the most successful RL clubs in England one of them being the best supported in the country and this is England. Australia vs PNG in Brisbane would have far more enthusiasm. The reason Eng/GB&I lose is due to the quality of players they have the fact that Chase is no1 choice for half back is testament to that. You hear far more from Australian players and coaches about the importance of the international game than you do from the English players and coaches.

The exception to this appears to be Richard Lewis who see it as a priority but then again he was largely ignorant of RL before he joined the RFL. Australia has done more for the international game than any other country followed by New Zealand.

funny that, mine tends to drop when we end up with a Labour government (hopefully that wont be a problem for a long long long time)

Honestly I think we need to go back to having a GB team when we play the 2 big teams Aus & NZ . England is fine for playing European games.

On a personal note I'm very much English first but needs must and we need to play the top teams with every top player available to us.

I'd be proud to be English if I thought it was an achievement, but it isn't..... so I'm not.