you have again proven my point....you bring nothing to the table.
You think that a sentence like:
[i"..sponsorships given partly on dodgy, some would say misleading, numbers"[/i

merits praise, yet it is a statement that is built on the very same "supposition" that it claims to expose



As for the idea that a company like VISA are happy to throw money at the Argentinian RFU based on "dodgy" or "misleading" figures shows that your new best buddy is also missing a few slates of his roof.

Argentina are currently ranked as the Number 8 Union team on the world....they are sponsored by a Global Credit Card Brand.
Australia are currently the Number 1 ranked League team in the world...they are sponsored by a local brewer......
...fact remains that Union generates more interest, viewing figures, revenue and media coverage globally than League. Your refusal to accept this shows that you are unable to grasp the realities of the debate.

:37uvyw3n
Resorting to lame insults? I guess your facts are truly in the gutter.

:37uvyw3n
Why would you need proof if you already know the figures provided by the irb are suspect?

:37uvyw3n
No, not a conspiracy, just very well investigated and documented BS. The irb have a bit of a history.

:37uvyw3n
Why? In previous posts you implied that the irb figures were above reproach only to say later that you allus knew the irb's methodology, and therefore the conclusions, was suspect.
Tangled webs GF.

:37uvyw3n
Yea, be kinda embarassing if it turned out the ppl who advise these companies were using obviously dodgy numbers, ay GF.
How many did you say had watched the 2007 ruwc final?

:37uvyw3n
Really? Hows the Bon Jovi bacefook count going? Will you be doing a similar witty commentary on the numbers provided by the other code?
Thought not.

.
Of course they do – but you apparently only believe its wrong when Rugby League does it.


I would counterpoint that you have no idea...about my views on Rugby League’s place in the world.

Apologies for the dbl post.

So you’ve changed your mind again and you now think the 2007 ruwc figures do stack up?
Prove or retract pls.


More insults GF? I could get to like you.
Please retract or provide proof that the irb ruwc figures are sound. The Article I linked to ISNT the only one out there, so make it good


Thats not in doubt is it? Unlike the audience numbers for the 2007 ruwc final. Or do you now agree that Dally was right?

Firstly......name calling.
I have been called everything under the sun by the one-eyed idiots on this board......one even "asked me outside" when he couldn't win his pointless argument.
Next up...the IRB figures. I repeat, I never said they were above reproach.....I simply asked for documented proof that advertisers were being conned and/or lied to.....either way, more people in South Africa watched the RUWC in 2007 Than the number of people who watched the entire RLWC in 2008 globally. This is the itch that dally tries to scratch but fails every time.

Next up.......I will repeat this BTW and will not retract. VISA are a global entity...they sponsor Argentina RU........do you think they do so without carrying out investigation into the potential ROI? Sorry, but VB will check their ROI for the Kangaroos Sponsorship the same way...if the IRB were telling porkies, I think Visa would know.

Now, as for ...."The irb have a bit of a history."...they do. They are also, as an organisation, 10 billion light years ahead of the RFL/AFL/NRL and any other organisation that has any say in the running of league. Germany and Japan have a bit of History too........but they make damn fine cars and lots of them.

then you go on to say how embarrassing it would be if advertisers were to find out about dodgy numbers being used.....are you 6 yrs old


Advertising has always been about smoke and mirrors.....it's a false economy and just because the other code are better at exploiting it, no need to cry foul.

Now...to Bon Jovi! Between the AB's and then the parody by the Waratahs, the popular file sharing site that we don't mention here has has 1,000,000 hits......Bon Jovi and the NRL have had about 25,000....I actually think the idea was a good one, but your new best friend was the one who said it would be seen by 10,000,000



In my job I have to tell it as I see it. I have told the cricketers and the Union lot that they are heading for a fall....the union lot are starting to listen....but it took a pretty good gate at the RL game here last year to get them to see I wasn't talking out of my 'arris! I will do the best for all my clients...that way, they stay clients and I get paid more. Your New Best Friend on the other hand thinks that anyone that dares to even watch Union should be shot.........as I said, very one-eyed.



As for your views on RL's place in the world.....you're right, I don't know how you feel. But the way you are trying to look clever and defend the village idiot would point to you being in the "It's big in Australia, so it must be big Globally" gang that has seen more members join and leave these boards in 12 months than we have fans at the stoop.

Bottom line is, dally messenger posts links to stories and uses inaccurate topic headers.......this thread being a perfect example. So long as he continues to do this, he will be given a hard time. FFS....even the mod thinks he's posting with more than one ID


I am a RL fan....I also watch other sports including Union. Because of this, dally messenger and his mates decided to try to have a go........12 months later, I am still here, he's all that's left. Speaks volumes for the way in which your new bestest friend tries to win debates.....by inventing new ID'S, getting posters from other forums to join here, only for them to be removed pretty sharpish and through name calling....which dove tails nicely as to where I came in.....when it comes to name calling, dally messenger cast that particular first stone

I also said I'd give him BotD because no ip's have ever matched up. Also you can mention YouTube all you want. As long as it's not linked up to copyrighted material it's fine.

I played rugby union at school btw. It's a good sport to play but can be boring as hell to watch! I appreciate over there the 3 sports are big and compete for the biggest share they can get whereas over here it's a bit different as Soccer rules everything with. Rugby Union is much more marketable though as far as attracting big sponsors go. I mean for a start over here in Europe you have England getting 80k a game, France 80k a game, Wales 74k a game, Scotland 67k, Ireland 55k and Italy 30k (which is capacity) plus a terrestrial viewing audience for the 6N in the millions. Look at RL and England struggle to sell 25k for a game these days. Against the Kiwis it rarely reaches 20k! The majority of the games are on SkySports where less than a million watch and this is why big sponsors stay away. I know in Australia its a bit different but when was ANZ last filled for a league international? VB isn't known out of Australasia really unless you go to Walkabout in England on a weekend. Qantas are a company known worldwide.

It all comes down to marketability. If Australia and NZ play in Union I reckon there'll be a good 20 or so countries with decent amounts of people tuning in. If the same 2 played in League you would have maybe 5 countries with decent figures. Anyway, TBF I've ranted for no reason here because I've actually only read that last post since the 1st page was completed and I dont have a clue what tangent its gone on

well...basically.
Dally Messenger said that the NRL ad would be seen by 10,000,000 fans on FB.........and this, surprise surprise, turned out to be untrue.....therefore, when his stupidity was pointed out, he ran off to another popular RL site and convinced someone else to come on here and try and show me up. As usual...this newbie has failed, but to be fair, he comes across as quite a smart cookie and is a welcome addition to the board. He's not keen on name calling though.....so I don't think him and dally messenger will get on


As usual, when this happens, the IRB, AFL, Union and everyone else gets a mention, but in a nutshell.......about 25k people have seen the NRL video on the tube and the same amount of people have royghly clicked 'like' on the FB page......which, when compared to the AB's video and then the waratahs parody of the AB's video shows us the true global MIGHT of Rugby League....it's big in Sydney and along a UK motorway!



I too played Union...I too find it as boring as hell to watch most of the time.....but hey, as long as dally et al want to play, I'll be here

i played union at school and hated it, found it slow and boring

i used to watch a lot of union in the 80s, especially the wallabies

no if i watch a union game before 5 minutes ill be throwing stuff at the screen

the game is poorly structured, has way too many penalties, the rules are a joke, the players skill levels are poor and there is way, way too much kicking, in general and at goal

To be fair you have to go on the M6 to get to Warrington and the M62 turns into the M60 at Manchester so thats 3 motorways

oop norf then

I cant watch club games but find the 6 nations involving England quite entertaining these days. Thats because they have turned into an All Blacks wannabe team though and look for the attacking option before they go for the kick. This is of course because quite a lot of the staff in and around the England set up have a rugby league back ground.

In reality though they are 2 different sports that only share a same shaped ball and a law that says you cant pass forward. As there is no structured way to get the ball back into play after a tackle and territory is key you often find even games have a lot of kicking.

they've even "naturalised" a couple of kiwinglismen...

Ive split the reply into two parts if thats ok with you GF.


I agree thats ridiculous behaviour, which is why I never do it. Well.........almost never

.


And an independent source was posted which supports the numbers given ITT by Hudds 1895 and Dally.
Do you accept the 30mlln figure or not? Bring sources.


I thought you didn’t like unsubstantiated claims? That is like me suggesting that 97% of the 2007 ruwc viewership came from JUST 7 countries(care to have a guess which 7), with only 3% in the remaining 185 countries, or the world as I like to call it.
Certainly bigger then RL, but global?


Fairy muff.


Cool story bro; Now what was the broadcast audience for the 2007 ruwc final.


100% agree with ya, its one of the things I would take from union tomorrow if I could. Well, that and the hivemind ability that union supporters have, which tells them when to STFU and NOT damage their own sport.

Yea, not that long since you guys were promoting smoking as being healthy.
But in the case of sports broadcast audience figures the, ‘smoke and mirrors’ as you put it, have been blown away by various independent studies.


Its kinda petty tho ay, Why not let it slide? Why call the game just so you can ‘win’ an argument on the net...


...The penny drops – Turns out you have thousands of reasons to bag SH Rugby League, tho Im sure you post only because of your interest in the game.


Interesting attempt at a strawman my friend but, like most of your assertions ITT, totally false. And no, Im not ‘trying to look clever’, just simply hoping to add to the conversation.

so to sum up the opposing side :

NRL 9 million facebook - lie

RUWC 4 billion - true

yeah i know which figure is closer to the truth

im backing us on this one

again :

This is embarrassing.

Having re-read the thread I agree with you Sheldon.

A puff or feel good newspaper article released in the build to the 2011 NRL season has been deflected into a League v union debate.

Good on the NRL for at least trying to get good news stories out there and, like GF, I applaud them for doing so.

Every thing round here gets deflected into a League v union/AFL debate. 1st time I have allowed myself to get dragged into it too. It gets quite tedious! I'll merge it with the Union b****ing thread in a bit

dont worry in 4 days time well have too much RL to be talking about BS sports

Hey fella, yea starting to get excited. Hopefully the NRL's marketing will help pack the stadiums out.

As m4e posted earlier, 'Its gonna be a mad season"

Nah bud, its fun to twist the other codes tail every now and again





4 and a bit days to kick off - cant wait.

just started buying rugby league week

not thinking about friday much tbh, then bang all of a sudden its back

ill be more of a neutral this year

since we won the comp ill be more worried about other team

souths vs easts should be a very, very good game

and cant wait for tigers / dogs on monday too

Lookin forward to storm/ manly tho I reckon warriors/ parra is gonna be special. Think there'll be too much emotion surrounding the QLD derby after the flooding/ storms but good luck the ppl over there.

Yea, reckon its gonna be close, FWIW I was really impressed by StG/ Illawarra in the WCC game.

yeah those two game will be good too. i think storm will do well this year and parra if they get can do anything

Fine by me......I'll double up though!


no issues with name calling....I just pointed out why dally gets a different name every time I mention him.....





I never stated 4 billion...I never stated any figure in fact...I really don't care how many watched the ruwc.....althought the 2 people (or is it one) you mention above seem to really have an issue with it.
The issue I had was that these posters (or poster) were bleating on about the dominance of League and how union was just built on lies...I simply asked for proof of the lies so I could inform my clients who will again throw many millions at the RUWC in sponsorship deals.........I have yet to see proof that I could take to VISA that wouldn't have me marched of to the funny farm.



Again, you bring up a totally unrelated factoid. I couldn't care if the entire audience were sat in 1 living room in China...it has no bearing on me. The clients that I have who also spend money on this tournament know what they are doing...they must think the people in these 7 countries match the demographic that they are looking for......they are the experts, not a couple of one-eyed leaguies on a forum.



Global.......there are now 10 nations that are part of yearly comps in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres (argentina will be in the tri nations after the WC.). Apart from Italy and argentina, the other 8 have at some stage in the last 20 years won their respective competition and in reality, there are 5 or possibly 6 teams that could win the coming competition in September and October.The other teams that will make up the numbers include Canada and America (north america), Japan (asia), Georgia (eastern europe) various pacific islands (pacifica)....so apart from the north and south poles, it's a pretty global event. I must say, the fact that lebanon aren't there (packed full of players from Sydney) is quite disapointing



....no, because you've just spouted the same supposition and anti-union bigotry that is the norm for this board....you have proven nothing

as I have said, I don't care......the advertisers/sponsors paytheir money, the IRB get richer, their 7's game is now part of the BIGGEST SHOW ON EARTH and yet the Sydney/M62 past time still thinks it can compete





Hey...I am a league fan, but I will eat you and anyone else dipsy mesenger digs up for breakfast on this point. The RUWC is an elephant........RL is an ant! The only people who care about SOO vieing figures are local TV networks.......more people watch 3rd tier soccer in stadiums than Superleague every week......I get up at stupid o'clock to listen to my team on the radio, but I accept tht UNION is the bigger sport....why can't you?



..one of the other things that league could take from union is the attittude of the fans....they really don't give a fu(k about League........but jesus wept, there are some league fans on here who are close to obsessive


PART 2

No need......

I will repeat this AGAIN.......I never put a figure on the RUWC viewing figures...please, find the post where I did. All I said was the advertisers seemed happy with the figures..........I wonder, will the penny drop that you are trying to win a non-argument here



...I'm like marmite mate!





I never...ever said that 4 billion or 15 people watched the RUWC........what part of this do you not understand. What I did say was that the advertisers should be told of these lies....surely they would crush the IRB



You don't get it.........so I will spell it out for you. Gillette paid less money for naming rights to the 4 nations than you would ever imagine. Nobody else wanted the rights....nobody was interested.....seriously, even I was sent the brochure/powerpoint in the hope that one of my customers would be interested.........but in the end, Gillette picked them up for less that the price of a Mercedes SL 55 (not even an AMG). Compare this with say, the amount of money that O2 pay the Irish RU for 3 years of shirt sponsorship (250 SL 55 AMG's).....a small country that has Union as a 2nd tier sport after Gealic games picks up more than the pinnacle of the League........but dipstic massager et al still say that League will crush Union in New Zealand...you should pick your allies better













I never said dally was right or wrong...for the last time...I never mentioned figures, I just pointed to the commercial issues.......I said the advertising/sponsorship people should be told if these lies were exposed, but dally only ever tells me........it ain't my problem.

This entire argument pops up from time to time...it is never won or lost. League is a big sport in Australia and PNG......It is also popular in a region of the UK and in the south west of France. It is a far better game than Union and is also better than Soccer, Golf and Tennis.......but on a global stage, all these inferior sports generate more revenue through sponsorship and are watched by more people. Dimwitted misguided one can spit his dummy out all he likes, but these are the simple facts.......even the Volvo round the world boat race is watched by more people globally than League........but hey, not long now and we can discuss the Mighty NZ Warriors cutting a swathe through the NRL!