Bradford have gone bust about 26 times. There will never be a “rejuvenated” Bradford.

It’s time to move on

Move on from what exactly ?

Your absolutely right that bradford ran into debts more than once due to the high maintenance cost of the ground and the cost of top players which was never fully covered by a rich owner.

But we can't "move on" with the likes of Toronto because they have run into much much bigger debts than Bradford ever did just getting to Superleague, and there's little genuine team building beyond that, just that massive debt that will only climb higher and higher. No player development either and no TV money - even Bradford would augment that and add to the attendances at other clubs.

We can however happily move on to Leigh. Mr. Beaumont is committed to personally covering all costs and investing in better players, he has a really good ground, and the Leigh.v.Wigan SL derby's were nearly 16,000 at Wigan and 7,000 at Leigh who put 50 past Wigan which was great TV.

So you need to be clear Steph if you think we should move on to Leigh? I certainly think we should.......Thoughts?

Until Mr. Beaumont decides he isn’t interested again and doesn’t want to honour players’ contracts?

can you give us the dates of the 26 times please

Goodish point Mr. Notorious, but remember Mr. Argyle certainly didn't like paying his bills this year. I don't know if TWP are limited liability so when it goes pear shaped will bills be paid in full?

Can you not understand Mr. Beaumont being highly miffed having lost his SL place when the team didn't come bottom, and even so more miffed when he could not return to SL with TWP blocking the way. Don't forget Mr. Beaumont was salary capped by the RFL during his promotion push to SL and he had to fight them to invest money into his team, then along come TWP who were allowed to spend full Superleague cap. (corrections welcome). Both owners have had their moments on paying bills and how they have treated players, neither is a saint.

But personalities apart the "Wigan Derby" is a good prize to have. Like it or not our strength is in Northern rivalries, Hull/HKR Leeds/Bradford, Cas/Wakey, Wire/Saints and as I say look at the crowds for the two Leigh/Wigan games, and look at the Leigh travelling support in the Championship where they provided much bigger away crowds than TWP. It may be you dream of the "Glamour" of TWP, but you can't discount the hard cash from the big derby crowds, and the Leigh travelling support. Pray tell me what do TWP bring to the game here?

Spot on Donny.

I wasn’t really making a pro-TWP or anti-anyone point to be honest just pointing out that apart from a select few clubs there are few that are thriving on their own two feet and don’t have numerous issues to contend with. For what it’s worth I’m content to see how the TWP project plays out - I’m not going to get into the pros and cons as it’s been done to death but the ‘cons’ are far less than has been made out and the ‘pros’ well we shall see over the next two seasons. After that we can review but until then it is just forum fodder.

So what point was you making here then?

He was making a point of there being reasons for skepticism about
the bright future of Leigh. I understood that. Why didn't you?

There is no scepticisms at Leigh. So, (without any fabricating, like you have been doing alot of) What reasons do you have ?

The past behaviour of Derek Beaumont, as was pointed to by Notorious. I understand that. Why don't you?

I understood what happened in the [size=150PAST[/size,and contracts were settled. Leigh are back on the up,and that is all that matters. Your vile dislike,and interference with Leigh, stinks of vomit.

That could be said of most heads of RL clubs. If the plug gets pulled on a certain level of funding at any club, then they're either looking for another benefactor, or going to struggle on the player recruitment front. There cannot be many self sufficient clubs in RL, so this could happen anywhere in RL.

The next TV deal is crucial, as it's of great concern to me that it will be either the same as last time, or conceivably be less. Where SL and RL is heading in the future is far too dependent on Sky for my liking. Also, the product on the field is a pale shadow of what it use to be, and I wonder if it's value to Sky has diminished, accordingly.

The game was financially rescued by Sky in the 1990's, but could so easily be cast adrift if Sky no longer receives enough revenue from our product.

Agreed.Very good point MPN.

I know what you mean Jean. DB's behaviour was not good at all towards the end of the 2018 season. He put the club up for sale, and unsurprisingly there were no takers. All the players who didn't find a new club in July '18 were treated shoddily to say the least. He has pumped a few million quid into the club, and looks like he thought 'sod it...I'm done'. Will it happen again, who knows ? But quite a few of those players from the 2018 season did re-sign for the club in 2019, so you can make of that what you want to. Basically if you own a Rugby League club, nearly all owners will lose money because of it won't they ?

as an example, Hull FC lost £300,000 last year, all out of AP's pocket.

I stated my point in my post that only a select number of clubs are self sufficient and successful. I only picked out Leigh because I was replying to a post referencing Leigh but as MorePlaymakersNeeded points out there are many clubs dependent on financial benefactors.

Okay.

London broncos received a semi-final shalocking at the hands of wigan in 2013.....david hughes was furious and onnthe point of walking away..... He was convinced by the rfl to stay but by the time that was agreed, it was too late to build a side for 2014 and we went down. If it werent for his continued £2,000,000 a year generosity london broncos wouldnt even exist any more. I dont agree with many of his decisions, but without him ans his like, the game in the uk survives purely on tv cash..... I doubt many would cope in sl if it werent for the TV cash........ Same in the NRL

Well I agree entirely with you that this TWP thing has to be fully played out to the end, but only because very few people seem to grasp that it has actually been played out and those who make the decisions have already come to a conclusion TWP agreed with. The TWP project as per Perez was to benefit the game here by developing North American players to widen the Pro-player pool and bring in extra NATV money to widen the games income at pro-level. On winning a Superleague place SL bosses declared TWP were just an anglo-aussie side owned by an Aussie wearing Canadian jerseys and nothing more. On commenting on the clubs inclusion TWP confirmed (1) They weren't going to be developing any North American players and (2) nor would they get any paying NATV deals.

How you conclude that we have to wait two seasons before making a judgement that has already been made by SL (announced publicly by McManus) and accepted by TWP (openly admitted by McDermott), well, with respect your not alone on this. What did you think was the measure of success for the TWP project that we supposedly cannot measure for another two years??. Open question to anyone who thinks TWP have made it or are on the way to doing so??

Ultimately, eyes on Superleague (not just those in attendance although replacing London with TWP will raise the overall numbers anyway), sponsorship and the next tv deal. TWP have already brought a whole load of media coverage and I’m interested to see if that translates into wider interest.

You mention the player development (which was never going to happen overnight) and other steps they haven’t taken but worth remembering that they are also not receiving any central funding. Of course they should be doing more here but so should a lot of clubs (mine included which has been in existence over 100 years longer).

I get that not everyone is on board with this especially traditional rugby league fans but the sport doesn’t need to target them to grow - it needs to target the casual fans who’s interest is piqued these days by the big international brands and big name players. I love rugby league but we’ve got to convince other people to love it to - putting the same effort into the likes of Bradford/Leigh/Widnes (no offence to anyone) is unlikely to inspire these casual fans in the same way.

Anyway, I’ve fallen into the ‘Toronto trap’ here. I’m more concerned about my own club and Toronto can sort themselves out I’m sure.

TWP will have no impact on TV or Sponsorship, Canada isn't a market for Sky, Bet365 etc.

You certainly have mate.

people need to bear in Mind that TWP would need to be kicking off at 13:00 local time to hit a 6 O'clock UK kick off, 5 hours behind the UK.