The Aussie press will say the only good players were Ellis and Burgess, just as they said after the Kiwi game.

What is blatantly obvious is that we can,t bring our best players be it in England or Australia from the domestic game to the international stage.

A few sample examples is:
Ellis/Burgess having great games in OZ but look very ordinary playing for England.
Atkins one of the best attacking backs last season, looking clueless devoid of ideas.
Widdop looking full of promise, now destined for the scrap heap.

The England coaching set up needs a complete shake up, instead of the annual how good we can beat France

We,ve got too many "winning mentality legendary" players hanging around on the edges of rugby league having no impact on how the game should be modelled, Hanley, Clarke, Sculthorpe,Edwards,Long etc.

I thought Roby and Robinson were where England looked dangerous, O'Loughlin and Goulding were the worst

Burgess has been very disappointing for me and makes far too many mistakes.

Graham, Westwood and Roby were our best players today and overall I certainly think that Graham can hold his head high as to how he performed last week and this.

roby, westwood, graham and robinson were our best players today. was expecting better things from burgess and ellis.

I thought roby had a good game and so did robinson.

Thought Atkins will be left dissapointed again, he just looks out of his depth!

I was impressed with the debutants, Lunt looks like he could be a very dangerous player for england, cudjoe was ok missed a couple of tackles and ben harrison continues to impress every time I see him play.

I'm taking a hell of alot of positives out of this tour, I looked at the world cup team and they should of got in the final, nothing was expected of our men this time around and they have been rather competitive. We just need to significantly work on our completion, especially coming away from our own line. You should never give the ball away in your red zone but time and time again we have done that.

The whole team will be learning from this and gives us more squad depth when the likes of morley,peacock,eastmond,mcguire,pryce,sinfield are back next year.

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Hall
3. Pryce
4. Shenton
5. Briscoe
6. McGuire
7. Eastmond
8. Graham
9. Sinfield
10. Peacock
11. Ellis
12. Burgess
13. O'Loughlin

14. Morley
15. Fielden
16. Roby
17. Westwood

is how I would of liked to seen us line up in this 4ns.

Ben Westwood, I would go on to say he is one of our best at International level, not like the next big thing in SL that is the choker at International level Sam Tomkins. And I know people are gonna come up with the excuses he was a target blah blah blah, but look at darren Lockyer. We target him everytime but he always comes up with the good wether his pack wins or not, because he is a truly class player, not a PRETENDER.

Rant over, I know alot of the deluded people on here will.....

Thought from 9-13 we looked the business. Crabtree looked good off the bench and Robinson did what he could. 1-6 just shocking. I know there young but some of the mistakes with and wthout ball were amateurish and certainly not close to Int standard.

to me roby played well but was on far too long in first half, lunt didnt come on until well into 2nd half, poor coaching in my eyes that, as was picking tomkins at full back he needs to be in the halves, oloughlin was terrible at stand off for me he contibuted massively to the missed tackles in the centres due to him not moving across in the defensive line, for the first try it was 5 against 2 but people blame the centre for the missed tackle , another coaching error in my eyes picking a defensive stand off instead of a attacking one.overall for me our best today were roby westwood graham and robinson, the worst burgess who makes more errors than anybody in the team, but plays in nrl so must be great, oloughlin so far out of position he looked lost and atkins another who makes countless errors throughout every game he plays.

The backs just arnet good enough. To be fair to Lockers, he shouldnt have been playing 6, and Cudjoe was as much to blame of that first try as Lockers. Goulding, Atkins, Briscoe, Cudjoe are no where near good enough for this level. Overall most have been very disappointing.

I watched the Aussie coverage and the only players worth anything were Burgess, Ellis, Graham, Roby and Westwood. Burgess and Ellis because they play in the NRL and Graham because some of the clubs are chasing him and Roby, because they knew who he was.

They slated the outside backs.

Agree re Westwood, not seen much of him and he looked the business in both games. Needs to cut out the laying on but that aside he looks a good player.

Tomkins is still young and learning his trade. I think he was a bit lost today and thought he had a much better game at 6 last week. My only concern with him is he does look a bit of a one trick pony and hasn;t shown any great passing or kicking ability.

No Fielden or O'Loughlin for me, and I reckon for you too if you weren't a wigan fan.

If O'loughlin was played in his position then yes, but not at 6.

O'Loughlin looked very good last week and totally ineffective this. Stop playing forwards at 6 England, have we learnt nothing from Farrell,Sinfield et al?

Couldnt agree more, he's getting alot criticism for his performance but he put in the effort in a position he shouldnt be playing.

Westwood's been this good for years.

Robinson & Westwood are the only 2 to consistently shine so far for me. Roby flatters to deceive. Graham has been solid not spectacular. Atkins, Cudjoe, Brown, Harrison shouldn't be near international rugby league but i've been most disappointed with Ellis and Burgess.

I'd agree with all that.

Good grief. People in Wigan shouldn't be allowed near keyboards, they just embarrass themselves. Go on then, let's have chapter and verse on why Roby and Graham, two of England's best performers in every match, are underwhelming ? You're not allowed to say "because they play for Saints". Go on...?

I can't believe the people on here saying Westwood was a top player today. Is it because he's got shaggy hair so he looks vigorous when he runs ? Is it because he charges into tackles so you can go "oooh" before he gives away the inevitable penalty?

You could make a good case that Westwood lost us the game today. He is a penalty machine, both for Wire and for England. The one thing we needed was a good start, and we have the Aussies on their first set trying to come out of their own half. So what does Westwood do ? He wraps his legs around the tackled player's leg and gives away the stupidest penalty in international RL this year. The Aussies score straight from the resulting tap, and from then on we're on the back foot. It's not good enough to look as if you're running hard into the collision. In RL test matches between the big 3, penalties decide games. Westwood had no excuse for that - he wasn't tired, the defence wasn't scrambling after a break. He just lost the plot. You'll also find that he missed a fair few tackles too, which is inexcusable for a second-row.

I'm not saying he was the worst player out there. You'd have to say that numbers 1-6 were predictably woeful, and Burgess probably pipped him for the Shot-In-The-Foot medal in the forwards. But to say he was worthy of significant praise is rhubarb.

What a crock of shizer, you have completely contradicted your own previous post. You bleat about people having a go just because they play for saints....then have a go at Westwood!! If westwood played for saints he'd be amazing just like Graham.

I think some of you were just waiting to slate Burgess. He was the only one to run over 100m and was second in your tackle count. Not forgetting your opening try. He knocked-on twice, which is no doubt incredibly frustrating, but he was still one of your best.

I thought Graham was outstanding.

Great effort.

You're a mentalist. There's a different between tongue in cheek poke at a pie fan who decides to single out the only two Saints players in the team for some against-the-grain criticism, and someone who questions just one player's performance. By your account, nobody is allowed to criticise any player unless he's from their own supported club. Get a grip.