Too many cooks then, we don't have enough ball in good posistion against the likes of NZ & Aus to need a playmaker at 13 IMO and matching up neither of them will do.

Sorry, I’m not sure I understand your point. If we play Widdop and Chase in the halves, we don’t have a play maker but we add Sinfield we have too many playmakers?

Anyway, I think that Chase can play first receiver very competently – he takes far more ball at first receiver at Cas than Orr

I mean am organiser needed, we don't need 2 players proving touches on the edges. Chase takes the ball when Cas get in the opponents half but to me seems all Orr before that.

I also think that having Sinny at 13 is having too many playmakers. For me you you need a loose with a good running/hard tackling game with decent handling skills. Sinfield has always been Leeds stand off for me. But during internationals i would like a Sean O character.

Chase will act as first receiver if they play him and Widdopp as traditional halfbacks. Or they may go left and right. I do agree that England should not be looking to shoehorn in a 'playmaking' loose forward - if Sinfield is in put him at stand off.

hooker does a lot of the organising nowadays anyway, just look at cam smith for proof. this is where roby can step up to world class

It was an opportunity to include Brough or even Gaskell or maybe even Robinson

No real point in including McGuire

McGuire was in career-best form before he got injured last season. This year he's understandably taken time to get back into form. His defence at times this year has been woeful, but in the GF he really turned up in that department too.

Lets be honest, McGuire, along with more than half of the other Leeds players, is there as backup. Its hard to see BJB, JJB, Ablett, McGuire (and even Sinfield depending on how McNamara wants to structure the team) in the first choice 17.

If we decided not to pick players for England because they've "failed in the past", we wouldn't have an England squad.

I suspect that if we are in our own half then most of the play will be directed by Roby with perhaps some front row offloads from Graham etc

If Chase come into his own at first receiver in the oppositions half then I would be happy with that alongside Widdop directing the wide attacks (of course we have Tomkins to inject himself here as well)

If that is the case, we can go for a running pack with the likes of Ellis, Westwood and Heighington making up the back three

The obvious weakness here is the long kicking game and we would really need the likes of Chase, Widdop and Tomkins to step up there

Wouldn't say awful but certainly one of the weaker sides to his game. That said Saturday he had a good game in D

Exactly. Does the opening poster realise how stupid he/she looks, along with a couple of others.

Do we now write off Graham, Morley, Peacock, Roby, and Ellis, also because they have been around failing for a few years?

The opening poster says McGuire has only looked in form because the leeds team are in form, yet despite the England/GB team been hammered for years he blames McGuire for that one.

You can't have it both ways.

Lomax, was quite correctly in ahead of McGuire, but he's now injured. There was not seriously that many options to replace him. McGuire was certainly the best of what was left.

Yeah I wasn't referring to results, but actually to the form he has had in an England or Great Britain shirt, and at times he has looked so out of his depth that it looks as if he has just switched codes, and not from rugby union but association football.

I can't profess to seeing Leeds Rhinos every week but what has become apparent is that that he 'performs' against the lesser teams and is largely anonymous against the better teams. I am happy with that sweeping statement and also that the word performs is in inverted commas; running support lines and backing up play does not make a stand-off, and IMO is a MOTD player, ie good for the highlights but if you actually watch him closely his game has massive deficiencies both in the accuracy of long and short passes, his kicking game, his organising of playing with depth (more of a pop at Leeds only playing an offload game, which does not allow McGuire to develop this part of his game as the flat attack and offload game works very well for Leeds).

I honestly rather have Luke Dorn than Danny McGuire in an England squad as the ability to score a try by backing up in attack does not make for a good plan of attack, as without a good go-forward from the pack you have lost your only game-plan from your 6, or 7 as he has been playing for large chunks of this season. I would have thought that Steve McNamara would be more aware that to stick him in the team would mean that we would have to play the same way that Leeds do, or we get literally nothing from McGuire as he only knows the one way and that is scoring tries by running support lines, everything else about his game is SL class and not to the level expected, or delivered by current or potential England interationals in those positions.

Personally Roby-Sinfield interchange, he's only ever looked good at hooker in an England shirt

from what we have Chase and Widdop in the halves.

McGuire won't play, he's a 'just in case' player and won't feature if we get no injuries.

At 13 i'd just go for power and drive over organisation, have a big energetic pack

Graham - Roby -Carvell front row
Westwood - Heighington 2nd row
Ellis LF

Bench

Morley
Peacock
Sinfield
JJB

McGuire is largely anonymous against the better teams? I just think people don't actually watch any games sometimes. McGuire over the last 8 years has been instrumental in Leeds' success and I believe they have played and beaten quite a few 'better' teams. It's fine not agreeing with his selection ( I don't think he should be first choice myself) but don't spout rubbish to try and prove your point.

I stand by it saying that it is a trend that has followed him throughout his career. He scores when the Leeds forwards are on the ascendancy and follows up with a nice little try. The anonymous bit is not for his highlights package but for the playing of 80 mins and for that 80 mins he does not do enough, and certainly when a team does not play a style that does not suit him; ie structured, organised, depth, etc all stuff that is not plan A at Leeds when compared to most clubs. Obviously Leeds have had considerable success and the style they play is key to McGuire and I'm happy to say vice-versa, but he does considerably better against the Wakfields, Salfords, and London than he does against the Wigans St Helens and Warringtons.

McNamara is just not good enough for the top coaching job over here.

Didn't do too bad at the HJ a couple of weeks ago.

You might stand by it. But history, statistics and his medal cabinet all prove you wrong.

Yeah, pretty sure I used all of those for the points I made, unfortunately you seem to misunderstood that medals, stats and the past are what he has achieved, I have stated that he could only do that in the Leeds team, or a team that plays a similar style, and that none of those actually show what he does on the pitch throughout the 80 mins of every game for the last decade, they show what he has achieved, not what he has done throughout each game; a very healthy try return doth not make for an international standard stand-off.

He does is too infrequently against teams of equal or greater opposition for my money. But that was a high-pressure game so fair does. Equally I remember McGuire playing so awfully against the Aussies at Wigan that he was pulled off and interchanged after looking just out of his depth.

McGuire had a stinker against Australia and was rightly dropped however, I think you are way way off the mark regarding mcguires big game performances for Leeds. He's been the difference in many a game

As a pressure-building, organising, whip passing, cut-out passing, deep kicking, short-kicking, high kicking stand-off, etc; no. As a try-scorer and supreme support runner; yes. He does a job for Leeds, and whether they play to him, or he plays to a style that Leeds play, it works for both parties, but as soon as you give him responsibilty for everything that he can only do to SL standard he looks weak at international and that weakness is exposed. You don't get many games where freeloaders as support runners are an option in international rugby league; the last sentence is a gross overexaggeration for effect but admit he has been the difference on countless occasions, both on the scoreboard and in actually finishing due to exception lines, but he does not get those chances at international level and until England start playing like Leeds he will not perform to international standard.

First point, where in my post to i blame Mcguire for Englands failings. Second point, Mcguire doesn't deserve to be in the England squad because in the last 7 years,there has been one international game where he has done anything of note. I think 7 years is a fair enough chance.

He has actually. Semi final against NZ in the world cup he was England's best player - by far.

Not that should mean he should play in this years tournament but hes been no worse than many others in the squad.

As for McGuire being just a support player (it's not 2004) its just not the case anymore