Hull have thrown millions at the KC, however that was the council not the rugby team!

Amor is actually Saints best prop and an international in the near future. Averaging more metres, more carries, similar tackles and busts than any of Wigan's props. His season was hammered by injury unfortunately and Saints missed him enormously. He only made 17 appearances, Play Offs included, all year. Despite this, massively impressive.



I'm happy to acknowledge that I'm not averse to coming out with the odd bit of hyperbole. I'd probably been reading too many posts from Wigan supporters and decided to join in. I like Sarginson, he's improved tremendously but his metres are more to do with Wigan's tactics than any real individual brilliance.



Thompson came on after 20 minutes. In an hour, he made the same metres as almost your entire propping rotation. Your pack didn't compete at all. Your front row put in one of the worst propping performances in a big game I've ever seen, hence you consistently went wide. Why do you think Wane is obsessively stockpiling prop forwards at present ?!?? It isn't because your props are outstanding, let me tell you !



Yes, I do. I'm not impressed with Tomkins at all on his return and if I'm honest, was pleased to see him line up at OT instead of Bateman. I reckon he's lost an element of pace although of course, a preseason will help. O'Loughlin is the best player in SL whilst Farrell is superb. His line running is the best in SL I believe. I'm happy to say these things because I watch the sport in a balanced fashion. If Wigan have a diamond, I have no issue in saying it. Unfortunately, your mob's RL considerations tend to revolve around everything Wigan being awesome and everything else being .



Because our pivots ended up being Jordan Turner, Mark Flanagan and Paul Wellens. With the best will in the world, they aren't passers of the ball.



Ifs, buts and maybes. With Walsh fit, Saints averaged 33 points a game last year. Wigan averaged 30 a game over the season. It's easy to understand why Saints attack became turgid as soon as the big injuries hit. Had Walsh (and Lomax) been playing after Flower did his thing, St Helens would have racked up a record score in a Grand Final and Wigan would likely have had 40/50 points put on them.

The Good Friday game was the 'line in the sand' moment I believe for Saints. Yet again that day they didn't show anywhere near enough aggression or commitment to compete with Wigan. Brown hinted at it afterwards. The two occasions since have seen Saints be more aggressive than they've been in years. The results have been obvious. With Walsh out injured at Wigan, they were still able to win and despite having no halves at all at Manchester, they did it again. Let's remember as well, it was the ridiculously aggressive start to the game that Saints made that saw Flower lose his rag. Ultimately, without McIlorum, Wigan simply couldn't compete in the middle of the field against Saints last season and Wane is intent on sorting it.

I think Walmsley is by far your best prop, probably the best in the comp. I have no problem praising players from other teams. Amor's stats don't back up what you said. He made more carries and therefore metres than Clubb and Crosby, but his average gain is less than Clubb's, but more than Crosby's, but I do feel Crosby improved as the season went on. He was very impressive in the big games at the end of the season. Clubb had twice as many tackle busts as Amor, with less carries. I do think Amor was impressive for you though, and yes you did miss him when injured.



Thank you for admitting you got that wrong. It was that comment that got me to bother to post a reply, because it was ridiculous. However I think you're underestimating Sarginson's elusive running ability, he just seems to get past or through people when he shouldn't, which is shown up in his tackle busts for the season.



We didn't have as strong a front row as saints before Flower was sent off. I've never said we did by the way. With only one prop on the pitch at any one time and no Micky Mac, we were never going to go toe to toe with your bigger pack, that would be suicidal, our only option was to go wide and we did it pretty well I thought. As for worst propping performance, did you see our play off game against Huddersfield, they were awful.



Well your posts on here have been anything but balanced up to this one, makes a refreshing change. Not every Wigan fan thinks like that, I certainly don't. Roby should definitely won MOS in my eyes for example. We would have beaten Aus and NZ with him playing, IMO.


Why not? They are professional rugby league players, surely one of the most, if not most fundamental parts of being a rugby league player, is to pass the ball to a teammate. Ok, they might not have the skill of Lomax or Walsh, but against 12 players, surely they could have passed the ball on to a teammate out wide, where we would have been short of numbers. If we had for example Sarginson, O'Loughlin and Bowen/Hampshire as our pivots, I would be embarrassed if they couldn't pass the ball.



We had 10 first team players missing at the DW, and SOL playing his first game back from injury, yet it's despite WALSH being injured. We won't ever know what would have happened 13v13 at the grand final, but the bookies don't often get it wrong.



Yes the ridiculously aggressive start, shoulder charge on very first tackle, Masoe's high shot in the first set and then LH elbow/forearm smash on Flower. Yet it's Wigan who are thugs apparently. Lance should have gone for what he did, even YG has admitted that. There's good reasons why we weren't as strong in the middle in the last 2 games, look at the pack we had at the DW, [uand i'll say it yet again we had 12 players for 78 minutes, with only one prop on the pitch at any one time[/u. How did you get on after Walmsley got sent off? You were leading weren't you?

Finally, yes Wane has recruited some props who should improve our go forward. I'm really looking forward to see how Tautai and Patrick go. I hope Mossop's shoulders hold up, he always gave us some go forward when he played. I also think Crosby will improve his stats considerably next year. He's a young prop, still learning, but he played really well at the end of the season, hopefully that will have given him some confidence that he can compete against anybody. If we had Walmsley, we would be almost unstoppable.

I'm well and truly over it. Can't wait for next season to start, to try to get the title back. Well done Saints, LLS with your injury problems and GF, you deserved it.

I was merely replying to a nonsensical comment about Sarginson, who isn't our saviour by the way, but a very fine player. It's escalated from there, mainly because we have a different opinion about rugby league. A discussion about rugby league, on a rugby league forum, who would have believed it?

Personally I feel it's a shame that we couldn't have had each teams best players playing in the Grand Final, 13v13, what a game that would have been!

Wigan
st Helens
Warrington
Huddersfield
Catalan
salford
leeds
Wakefield
hull kr
cas
hull fc
widnes

I don't know who you've brought in who are better than:

Josh Hodgson, Travis Burns, Juston Poore, Neville Costigan, Jason Chan

Plus the sheer number of the players you've let go / have left is too many and will cause distuption, especially when all your pivots left at once, and you still don't seem to have a decent hooker

Not replaced Hodgson with good enough quality, totally agree but it seems we are still in the hunt for a hooker, looks likely it will be one from the NRL.

Burns has certainly been adequately replaced along with Keating, with Kelly and Blaire coming in for them, plus still on the look out for another half back according to Chester.

Replacing Poore won't be very difficult along with Costigan, already in is Bailey and other reports suggest Allgood has signed. We have signed Mcarthy, Donaldson and Burke to play in the back row. Chan was only on loan for a short period, so won't be missed.

Our backiline is massively improved! You are right it's a lot of players to gel but the squad really needed it, we got rid of a lot of deadwood, fingers crossed we can gel pretty quick.

St Helens
Warrington
Wigan
Catalan
Leeds
Salford
Huddersfield
Hull
Wakefield
cas
Hull kr
Widnes

Confident top and bottom 4, but the mid 4 could be in any position

Fair enough. Still, they have kept Tony Smith which I think is key.

Hard to say until they've played a few times. Keating was hailed by most Rovers fans as a adequate replacement for Dobson.

As with any signings from down under they could be great signings or could be complete disasters (and yes Hull FC have had plenty of the latter).

Very fair point and one I totally agree with.

I think anyone who has seen Kelly play would mostly agree he is a better player than Burns. I'm hoping Blair has more to offer than Keating, not seen anything of him at 6/7, only at centre. His previous coach seems to think they will go well. I'm pretty sure we can't be any worse off in the halves as we was last season.

Was he? Which reputable polling agency came up with that result? I can only think of 1 Rovers fan who actually thought that.

Again another goon who conveniently ignores the fact that Flower had already stiff armed Hohiah in the back of the head. When he stated that Wiganers consider everything other than Wigan to be poop, This statement proves the fact.

So are you saying when the Keating signing was announced most Rovers supporters didn't think he was an adequate replacement? I seem to recall most were happy at the signing of an NRL Grand Finalist.

Top 6 in no particular order:

Wire
Wigan
Saints
Cats
Leeds
Hudds

- We (Wire) have made some top signings
- Hill Clark Sims will be formidable
- Joel will be up for top TS again
- O'Brien and Myler are clicking
- Our squad has some depth across the field so competition for places will be healthy

You never know guys, it could be our year.

(sarcasm)

Let's get this right. I was talking about =#FF0000saints aggressive start to the game, why would I have mentioned Flower, he doesn't play for saints. If you want to go over the whole incident yet again, then yes, Flower did instigate it, but tell me if LH had been sent off like he should have been, would you have deemed his response acceptable?




Are you saying=#FF0000 I stated that? I was responding to SLS saying that. If you read my whole post, you would have seen glowing praise for Roby, Walmsley and your prop forwards in general, who I believe have more go forward than ours. =#FF0000It seems it's you who's conveniently forgotten what I posted. And you called [ume[/u stupid with your smiley faces!!!





I am by no means a =#FF0000goon who thinks Wigan is better then everything, I think our teams are very even, as the league table and games against each other suggests. Both teams suffered with a lot of injuries during the season yet we were first and second, separated by one point.

By the way I want to clear one thing up from my earlier post. Chris Hill is by far the best prop in SL, IMO Walmsley is second.

Don't be so bloody stupid, fancy hijacking a thread called SL 2015 table with a prediction of who think the top 6 might be when you could be joining in with the latest 'thinking' of what would have happened if Flower hadn't done this or Lomax and Walsh had have been fit all year....you know exciting cutting edge debate that needs appropriate 'air time'

Meanwhile over in Holland, is Ronan Keating better than Gene Kelly and is Mr Burns right to leave Springfield blah blah please keep up Vespid

My top 6 would be
Saints
Wigan
Wire
Cats
Giants
Leeds

I think Catalan could be a real danger to the top teams if they can sort out their away form. Wigan will struggle initially without Green, but will be there or thereabouts.

As for bottom six, I find it too tight to call. Wakey seem to be most peoples pick, but I'm not so sure, I like the look of their team.

Sorry for going off thread people, it's just that I've read so many ridiculous comments lately on here that I just bit. Apologies.

If you want ridiculous comments, stick to the Wigan board.

Oh Dear, here we go again.

By not mentioning the initial assault by Flower on Hohiah, you are insinuating that Lance started the incident. This has to be mentioned to give clarity to your comment. I apologize for the smilies but you are just the latest in a long line of Wiganers (I live in Billinge so I know many) who seem to conveniently erase the truth from their minds. Ben Flower started the whole incident, Lance retaliated a little strongly and Flower finished it off.

If the incident had finished at the first punch, Then I would have been happy for the ref to give them both a dressing down and send them on their way. We were, after all, 2 mins into a grand final. A quick "calm it down, penalty to Saints and lets get on with it" was all that would have been needed. The second punch changed everything.

Wigan played with 12 men, but Saints played for 78 mins short an interchange player and our only half back off the pitch.

I sincerely hope this is the last time I have to have this conversation.

You seem to do so, far more than is healthy for a reasoned and intelligent poster such as yourself.

The top three will be anyone of the big two West of the Pennines, St Helens and Wigan, plus Warrington Wolves.

The rest of the table could finish up in any order.

The most positive comments come from fans of your club, strangely.
[urlhttp://viewtopic.php?f=59&t=556706[/url

Warrington
Wigan
St Helens
Catalan
Leeds
Huddersfield
Castleford
Hull
Salford
Hull KR
Widnes
Wakefield