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| Personally I think the Met needs to be aware that there could well be a very large contingent of angry RL fans heading to London this weekend to protest outside the embassies of the countries where homosexuality is illegal.
If one player, possibly making one comment on TV can stir up this much passion then heaven only knows what will happen.
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| Quote ="Bfd_Rhino"Personally I think the Met needs to be aware that there could well be a very large contingent of angry RL fans heading to London this weekend to protest outside the embassies of the countries where homosexuality is illegal.
If one player, possibly making one comment on TV can stir up this much passion then heaven only knows what will happen.'"
But it isn't one player making one comment Rhino, it's one player who may have made a comment for which he was soundly thrashed last time out and for which he offered an apology for not adhering to professional standards.
The problem with Hardaker is, irrespective of the outcome, he is becoming quite a bufoon. He can't behave on the pitch and is approaching Karl Pratt annoyance levels for his lack of professionalism with all the gobbing and behaviour. By comparision i haven't heard a peep about Ryan Bailey who is by Hardaker's standards a model pro.
If the eejit could be looked after by the management at Leeds he wouldn't be putting himself in these positions. A manager's job isn;t just to pick the team, it is to mentor and develop them. He seems to be failing with Hardaker.
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| Leeds's statement is ridiculous and incredibly unprofessional. The referee has stated he heard something, yet they are claiming it's a witch hunt.
There should be punishment against Leeds sa well. It's like the Suarez thing with Liverpool, blindly supporting a player on the basis of innocent until proven guilty just makes you look bad if he is then found guilty.
The gesture was clearly a stupid thing to do given his recent bother. Surely Leeds can see that.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Leeds's statement is ridiculous and incredibly unprofessional. The referee has stated he heard something, yet they are claiming it's a witch hunt.
'"
The ref didn't say he heard something, at first. This is confirmed. None of the saints players heard anything. Then there's an internet sh*tstorm and magically the RFL have decided to investigate, and then as if by magic suddenly silverwood heard ''something''.
Surely even the most anti leeds can see something is abit f*cky. Why the hell wouldn't the leeds club back him in such circumstances until the facts are established. The kids being hung out to dry and has had to endure dogs abuse from the stereotypical, poorly educated clueless rugby league fans.
I despair at this sport. We are a laughing stock.
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"How is it?
I haven't said Hardaker is guilty or innocent, I've said that the RFL need to investigate to prove guilt or pronounce otherwise. That you, others & the Leeds club want to dismiss this incident out of hand which you lot have been doing makes you all look narrow minded, bigotted and stupid.
'"
No ones dismissing it out of hand. You are so clueless it's unebelievable. Can't you see what the issue is here?
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"The ref didn't say he heard something, at first. This is confirmed. None of the saints players heard anything. Then there's an internet sh*tstorm and magically the RFL have decided to investigate, and then as if by magic suddenly silverwood heard ''something''.
Surely even the most anti leeds can see something is abit f*cky. Why the hell wouldn't the leeds club back him in such circumstances until the facts are established. The kids being hung out to dry and has had to endure dogs abuse from the stereotypical, poorly educated clueless rugby league fans.
I despair at this sport. We are a laughing stock.'"
So why not bring that up AT the hearing, rather than throw the poo around in public. The club and sport have a responsibility to it's stakeholders and the reputation of the sport to handle matters like this in a professional and considered way. Throwing allegations around, which appear to be based on heresay before waiting for the evidence to be presented is just a reactionary and emotional response.
If the RFL turn up to the hearing with evidence he's used the terms he's alleged to have done, the player, club and sport have their reputation damaged because of the frenzy Leeds's response causes.
Even if they are 100% sure they've been wronged, they've got to wait till the hearing to prove that, throwing it around in public beforehand is not the right course of action.
Leeds fans claim everyone is jealous of Hardaker and the RFL has been caught up in a witch hunt. In reality it's just that Leeds and it's supporters are scared Hardaker will be banned for the Play Offs.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler" The kids being hung out to dry and has had to endure dogs abuse from the stereotypical, poorly educated clueless rugby league fans.
I despair at this sport. We are a laughing stock.'"
He put himself in this position, don't forget that.
And it is very poor of you to comment on so negatively on people you have never met.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"No ones dismissing it out of hand. You are so clueless it's unebelievable. Can't you see what the issue is here?'"
It's you who can't see the issue clearly!
You and your pathetic club aren't interested in following up on a potential serious breach of the sports rules..that's the issue here.
The utter garbage spouted about Hardaker being trialed by social media..what a load of rubbish..the incident has being discussed by fans..of course it has. Something that could be extremely serious you're going to have people discussing it and the potential ramifications as he's been caught out previously gobbing off with homophobic abuse!
Frankly I couldn't give a stuff that he plays for Leeds or rugby league in general, but you're so blinded by the fact I'm a Hull supporter and that cos it's Leeds I've got a bee in my bonnet..Whatever, you couldn't be more wrong..like how wrong you are about your stance not to ensure that we don't have players spouting bile that is offensive, against the Sports rules and even worse a criminal offence.
It doesn't matter who the player is, or which club he plays for..If you care to read I've said I'm not certain at all what Hardakers says, I'm not an expert, it could be a few different words. If the investigation is inconclusive then he gets a wrist slap for being a mouthy get..however the RFL are bound by their own rules to investigate as there's potentially being a serious breach of the rules..jesus wept you are so clueless it's unbelievable!
If a person was out in the street and a member of public said to the police, this person has just shouted out homophobic comments they'd have to investigate and make every effort to find out..
But yeah..you and your lot can crack on.
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| I got punched at Everton once, right in front of a copper, i knew if I hit the Everton fan I'd get nicked, so i blew him a kiss, no hand action but a distinct pucker of the lips as the kiss was released into the air. Nothing homophobic about the action, i was just letting him know his punch was ineffective.
I don't see how you can safely assume a kiss is a homophobic action.
I wonder if he's been tapped up by Rugby Union yet?
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| Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Read my words. '"
Read your words? What do you think I do? This is an internet forum. So far as I know, apart from posting pictures, reading each other's words is pretty much the sole option.
Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Where are you getting that information from?'"
My experience with lip-readers. But you could try the case of R. -v- Luttrell and others.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Read your words? What do you think I do? This is an internet forum. So far as I know, apart from posting pictures, reading each other's words is pretty much the sole option.'"
T'was a joke you daft ****. A take on the READ MY LIPS of George Bush where I think he promised no tax raises, and then when elected raised taxes.
I said to read my words because I asked where you got your information from about lip readers being almost 100% accurate and refuting the "myth" of them only scoring 30%.
Quote My experience with lip-readers. '"
It's clearly extensive given the ringing endorsement. But given that no details are being offered to back up your endorsement I guess you've signed non-disclosure agreement? Either that or you were just talk out of your anus rather than your lips.
Quote But you could try the case of R. -v- Luttrell and others.'"
"Although the defence claimed this was unreliable evidence, the judge ruled it admissible. On appeal, Luttrell's conviction was upheld, but the court of appeal made clear that juries should be warned of the unreliability of such evidence."
The lip reading expert in that case was Jessica Rees. She was the "foremost lip reading expert in the UK" and one that the CPS used extensively until it was found out that her CV claimed a degree that she actually hadn't earned. She left England soon after and is now an Australian lip reading expert.
She also apologised for massively getting evidence wrong in part of a murder trial where she gave evidence. Sadly for her, a poor quality audio tape of the actual conversation took place surfaced and her testimony was proved to be poor. She'd taken on too much work and was tired, she said.
I actually paid pretty good attention to the criminal trial of John Terry, which was another case which involved testimony from lip reading "experts". The two experts agreed that John Terry did say, "effing black c***", which was massively helpful, as John Terry actually said that he'd said it. But Terry said that he only said it in response to being accused wrongly in the first place. Terry claimed he said "I never called you an effing black ****, you effing nob ed." but the expert lip readers were pretty much no use in determining anything else that was said. John Terry was found not guilty.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter" Gay people want to be treated equal....not to be treated with kid gloves.'"
...then as I have said,,, a good number of Them need to get off the cross.
I Can only dream of the days I could scamper for anything by the way. I made a measured asseeeeesment of your 'I own a pink t-shirt" comment......you seem to be the one who is getting a bit catty abouit it?
Saucer of Milk for table 3 purr-haps?
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| Quote The focus of the complaint by Dawson and Hamberger is material relating to six cases with which Miss Rees had been previously involved. The first is Kenyon and Bowen tried in the Stafford Crown Court in 1999. Two defendants were charged with the murder of the husband of one of them. Before she was charged, the widow of the deceased visited her co-defendant in prison, and video recordings were made of conversations that she and other visitors had with him. These were interpreted by Miss Rees, and her transcripts were instrumental in the deceased's wife being charged. The police were able to carry out a test of Miss Rees' reliability in interpreting the conversations because there was an audio recording of one of the prison conversations. A detective constable made a transcript of it and compared it with the transcript made by Miss Rees. He raised concerns about the results saying that Miss Rees' transcript contained approximately 2,100 words spoken by the accused Kenyon, and continuing: "I examined the transcripts made by Miss Rees and myself. I found a vast difference in the two transcripts. I recorded that she only accurately recorded approximately 234 words spoken by Kenyon. Therefore approximately 1,800 were added." In ensuing correspondence, Miss Rees pointed out that some of the criticisms made of her work reflected errors on the part of the police in interpreting the audio-tape or mistakes in typing up her notes. She also observed that her task was the more difficult because the subject matter of the conversation kept changing and what she was lip reading lacked context. However, she did acknowledge shortcomings: "... there is one specific area which I have identified …where I have completely failed to grasp the gist of the conversation and this is of extreme concern. There are also other single errors." In a later letter, she attributed the quality of her work to trying to lip read for too long at a stretch, and, apologising for her work, she stressed that "valuable lessons have been learned". In the event, Miss Rees was not called to give evidence and her work was not used at the trial. This decision is explained in an advice written by the Crown's junior counsel. Commenting upon the police's attempt to use the audio-tape to measure Miss Rees' reliability, he wrote: "In theory, this was laudable. In practice, I take the view that as a "test" it was unfair and unreliable". He also made it clear that the decision not to call Miss Rees to give her lip reading evidence was not taken because of the test, but because the Crown considered that they had very strong evidence without it and were concerned that the defendants might exploit challenges to Miss Rees' evidence to "sidetrack the jury". '"
234 out of 2,100 accurate. I don't feel that's anywhere near 100% accurate is it?
Now, Rees said that the video wasn't "ideal conditions" and I'd accept that. But the problem for Rees is that she claims that she wouldn't include words unless she was 98% sure they were accurate.
Lip reading - as reliable as lie detectors and psychics.
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| If the RFL have engaged a lip-reading 'expert' it makes the whole thing an absolute mockery, and Leeds have every right to be furious.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"If the RFL have engaged a lip-reading 'expert' it makes the whole thing an absolute mockery...'"
It didn't take the lip reading expert to be a mockery. It's been a mockery from the start.
The world has gone mental. "Effing puff" is a childish, stupid, pathetic insult. And yet it's being treated as a case of disgusting homophobia. It's ridiculous, and I want to punch myself in the face for continuing to read about this BS but I'm still here and posting.
The situation does remind me of the Man City-Hull City game last year. Joe Hart went out and challenged the Hull forward. The Hull forward went down and Joe Hart went crazy claiming he'd dived for a pen. The Hull forward screams back at him and Joe Hart goes all pretend headbutt nonsense.
Thing was a Man City fan's got the game captured for all his Vine whines. He captures the incident and sees spit flying from the Hull players mouth in the middle of their screaming match. So it's straight on Vine with the outrage that the Hull player attempted to spit in Hart's face.
Watching the video IMO the Hull player was just arguing and it was totally accidental that the spit flew from his mouth. There's no way he could perform a sly spit in the middle of an argument. I don't believe it's possible. But he got charged and banned, even though he protested his innocence.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"...then as I have said,,, a good number of Them need to get off the cross.
I Can only dream of the days I could scamper for anything by the way. I made a measured asseeeeesment of your 'I own a pink t-shirt" comment......you seem to be the one who is getting a bit catty abouit it?
Saucer of Milk for table 3 purr-haps?'"
Awww still scampering by exaggerating about what I wrote. Bless.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Awww still scampering by exaggerating about what I wrote. Bless.'"
As I said sweetie......I dont scamper anymore. You on the otherhand still claim to be the flag bearer for gay rights on rlfans.com. if you think im exaggerating, scroll back a couple of pages. X
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| Quote ="gutterfax"As I said sweetie......I dont scamper anymore. You on the otherhand still claim to be the flag bearer for gay rights on rlfans.com. if you think im exaggerating, scroll back a couple of pages. X'"
I know what I said, I said you won't find a stronger supporter of gay rights on here, nothing at all wrong with that seen as you don't know me personally, yet you've come up with the translations of it as.....
"Some of my friends are gay"
"I own a pink tshirt"
Anymore lazy dinosaur thinking gay stereotyping you got to complete your hat trick of stupidity? Lol
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"I know what I said, I said you won't find a stronger supporter of gay rights on here, nothing at all wrong with that seen as you don't know me personally, yet you've come up with the translations of it as.....
"Some of my friends are gay"
"I own a pink tshirt"
Anymore lazy dinosaur thinking gay stereotyping you got to complete your hat trick of stupidity? Lol'"
My my........aren't we precious!
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| Quote ="gutterfax"My my........aren't we precious!'"
Not really, just you tried to be clever and funny and ended up looking stupid......nothing wrong with me pointing that out
Funny how the usually quite full of words Gutterfax has been reduced to "aren't we precious" response.....the clear indicator the person is stumped for a better response
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| I hope this lip reader will be kept on full time to watch every game back and check for potentially homophobic, racist and abusive swearing from the players that no one has heard, reported or seen during the match itself.
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| Why are the Leeds club and fans so upset about the use of a lipreader? If this is a groundless witch-hunt surely they should welcome this?
1. Hardaker banned for homophobic abuse on live TV
2. Shortly after his ban, he's blowing kisses and appearing to shout homophobic abuse, again on live TV
3. RFL decide that's worth looking into in light of his previous (and let's not forget, there'sonly one person to blame for his previous)
4. WITCH HUNT!
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| Quote ="LeedsDave"I hope this lip reader will be kept on full time to watch every game back and check for potentially homophobic, racist and abusive swearing from the players that no one has heard, reported or seen during the match itself.'"
I thought Leeds fans were complaining it wasn't reported immediately to the match commissioner and therefore it's impossible Silverwood couldn't possibly of subsequently put it in his post match report and thus this is nothing more than a "trial by twitter" - and should be thrown out - now you want incidents not even seen or heard by the ref to be investigated as well... Seems a bit of a contrary stance...
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| Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"It didn't take the lip reading expert to be a mockery. It's been a mockery from the start.
The world has gone mental. "Effing puff" is a childish, stupid, pathetic insult. And yet it's being treated as a case of disgusting homophobia. It's ridiculous, and I want to punch myself in the face for continuing to read about this BS but I'm still here and posting.
The situation does remind me of the Man City-Hull City game last year. Joe Hart went out and challenged the Hull forward. The Hull forward went down and Joe Hart went crazy claiming he'd dived for a pen. The Hull forward screams back at him and Joe Hart goes all pretend headbutt nonsense.
Thing was a Man City fan's got the game captured for all his Vine whines. He captures the incident and sees spit flying from the Hull players mouth in the middle of their screaming match. So it's straight on Vine with the outrage that the Hull player attempted to spit in Hart's face.
Watching the video IMO the Hull player was just arguing and it was totally accidental that the spit flew from his mouth. There's no way he could perform a sly spit in the middle of an argument. I don't believe it's possible. But he got charged and banned, even though he protested his innocence.'"
As much as I dislike Leeds, the worlds gone mad. Not just this incident, but the UK in general is just becoming a sorry nanny state full of whining imbeciles protesting about absolutely everything. Recent incidents in Rotherham only serve to highlight this and the damage that can come from overt political correctness.
That said, pro sportsman have an obligation to behave. If he did it again and can be proven, then he should cop a ban for being an idiot. If people can prove and believe he is a homophobe, then he should be kicked out of the sport.
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| Quote ="FearTheVee"Why are the Leeds club and fans so upset about the use of a lipreader? If this is a groundless witch-hunt surely they should welcome this?
1. Hardaker banned for homophobic abuse on live TV
2. Shortly after his ban, he's blowing kisses and appearing to shout homophobic abuse, again on live TV
3. RFL decide that's worth looking into in light of his previous (and let's not forget, there'sonly one person to blame for his previous)
4. WITCH HUNT!'"
And its as clear cut as that is it? Stop been f****** daft.
Leeds are outraged at the change of goal posts mid week. Protocols have not been followed and rules have been broken, that along with a vigorous pursuit of the matter has left Leeds rightly furious.
If it was in the match commissioners report and/or Silverwood spoke to Zak at the time then the whole situation wouldn't have this bitter taste.
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