I don't think anyone has a God given right to win at all. What I can see is some teams with some brilliant players playing utter dross. I don't have a problem with losing as long as there is a decent game on. Bradford vs Warrington was one of the poorest spectacles I have ever seen. Both teams, with some proven class players, played absolutely shocking standards of rugby.
I don't think it's because the salary cap has evened out where the players go that the lower teams have become more competitive. I think that's insulting to some of the players that have come through the academies over the years. I think our talent pool has increased which is why there is more competition. But I think the standard of rugby has gone down because of a shocking standard of coaching at the moment. Unforced error rates being high and 5-drives and a kick tactics are not good spectacles and not because players are being evened out.


I think Hull have built a decent side to be fair. And Bradford's is definitely not as bad as the table suggests.
And I have recognised many times that teams have built well. Hudds especially. But it's the coaches job to build the team as well, which goes with my point.


Possibly the most stupid reply I have ever seen. How is being a poor team an explanation? The explanation would be WHY we are a poor team. Why do you think Hull's team are poor at the moment? Why do you think Wire are poor? Why are Bulls poor?


That's not what I'm saying at all. You're either being purposely ignorant so you can have a pop, or you just can't understand what I'm saying.

If Hull finish bottom but play with some flair and passion and skill then what more can I ask for? As long as the product on the pitch is entertaining then I have no problem with losing. But we have been poor as a team, like Wire and Bulls and Catalans and Wigan. There are proven players in these teams. Being a good coach means more than recruiting the best players. I don't want to see a close league because the standards level down. I want to see them level up. Only Leeds and Saints seem to be maintaining a decent standard at the moment.

In fairness to Catalans I think they are starting to look like the team of last year now. Walters had a big job on his hands to follow Mick Potter but he's starting to settle in now.

People wanted an even competition. Well you got one. Trouble is, it's evened downwards. Sometimes you should be careful what you wish for.

At the end of the day you have to look at three main factors.

1. The quality of English players is the worst it has ever been. The very basics of the game are completely dead in England, they are not taught to players at any stage. So English players come through the ranks totally under skilled.

2. The quality of coaching at every level of the game in the UK is criminal.

3. Imports go over to England for money and nothing else. They don't really care how they perform.



At the end of the day no one in England has any drive to fix any of these problems. If you lot don't care, neither do I.

What a crock of crap, typical of the British mentality. When someone does well for themselves and disturbs the status quo let's knock em down by suggesting things ain't what they used to be.

So we can only assume that if Saints or Leeds and the percieved other big club Wigan, Bradford. Hull or Warrington don't win SL and say Cas do. It will only be bcause those teams have gone down hill not that others have simply got better and won on merit - genuinly pathetic attitude.

Go off and have a hug with that idiot LF, you give him everything he needs.

Good grief

For once a post of League Freak I can find nothing to argue about.


Worrying times

#
you were the same a couple of seasons ago

Yes, now the Salary Cap is beginning to bear fruits the quality of Super League games & players has deteriorated

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Let’s get back to the ‘Big Four’ scenario shall we, because internationally we were so much better then. But a least then supporters of certain clubs could go along knowing their beloved team would win – where’s the enjoyment in that?

Salary Cap, Imports, Quality of coaches, blah, blah.

We haven’t beat the Aussies since I was a lad, and that’s a long time ago, and if I knew the answer I’d be sat with those numpty’s at Red Hall, but to blame the Salary Cap!

2 years ago?

imo my club has got better quality year on year for the last 5. yes st's and leeds are better than anyone but the rest are generally all at the same level. no different in the nrl where the storm have been far better than 90% of teams for the last 4 years.

Too much money and time spent on making already decent players gell rather than develop their own players. Like has already been said there is just a merry-go-round of average British players combined with over the hill Aussies or not quite good enough for the NRL overseas players and our resources are aimed primarily on making all these gell in the first team and very little is put into making sure lots of kids take up the sport and are developed properly. Next time the franchises are up, I'd want to see what the Super League clubs do at local junior sides, schools etc... as part of the points system.

Ok Mr Picky.

There have obviously been a number of times we have beat the Aussies in a test match, but when it comes to winning a series, we have won jack.

It was so long ago that ‘Stevo’ was in the team FFS, and you were probably a twinkle in your Granny’s eye

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Brilliant and accurate assessment.

This was always inevitable (and predicted) when the number of clubs in SL was increased. More clubs chasing the same number of top class players has only one result. Add in that more clubs are paying the full cap than previously and it`s bound to happen.

What`s actually more important is our attitude to it. In some ways it`s a positive; as a competition SL is fgenerally more open now that it has ever been. Though from an international perspective we are no longer having games featuring vast arrays of international players (Saints and Leeds excepted) so England aren`t getting the same intensity as previously when the top players were more concentrated.

Walters had an impossible job following Potter, made even more difficult by the fact they had no pre-season games amongst many other distractions. Now they have settled in, and the weather gets hot in France they will go well and will defo be in the play offs.

Not quite. Having the best players spread more evenly through the competition means that each such player has to work harder to achieve. It's much harder to look "good" in a team that's not so good.

I think its quite natural that in the early years of the salary cap (combined with stricter quota rules), the standard of the traditionally higher placed clubs would drop.

Instead of being able to sign up the best players, the focus is now on the coaches to train up the more modest youngsters and implement more effective playing strategies. I expect the standard to start creeping up over time.

Agree fully.

The early stages are going to see a lower standard. As clubs start to improve coaching and using their youngsters more and more due to no threat of relegation the standard should improve. Its a long term project IMO.

The standard of coaching is appalling at most SL teams and this is holding players and teams back.

Warrington have realised too late that appointing an explayer with little/no coaching experience isnt going to do you favours, but for me their season has already been wrecked.

Hudersfield and Hull KR have shown that with a decent coach, run of the mill players can improve their basic skills dramatically and therefore become a significant threat.

Saying that i think a lot of the current blowouts are down to 3 games in 8 days for teams.

Wigan fans always cry wolf at the salary cap
Hull fans are saying the competition is weaker when in reality its them who are weaker, due to having a caoch in charge who is out of his depth.

and don't forget the players!!!

They have a responsiblity as well.

I agree with wellsy the standard has dropped and significantly. 4/5 years ago we had 3-4 clubs challenging for the title, and another 1-2 who could launch a bid for it, that was nearly half the league, now we have two who are comfortably better which is apparently the league being "more competitive"

Knowing this The only argument you could make against this being evidence of the dumbing down of the league would be if those two clubs were comfortably better than they were 5 years ago, as a leeds fan, who has just seen his team crowned back to back champions, I would still argue we aren't as good as we were 5 years ago

The recent Leeds hudds game was 2nd v 4th and bar a top
Quality 15mins around half time for Leeds, the fundementals from both sides were very poor.

This is an obvious effect of an sc designed purely to hold back the top clubs, that is all it was meant to do and all It can do, stop the top teams improving past a certain level leading to a levelling down of the league until we have a league full of mediocre clubs

And anybody thinking this sc will bring through rafts of quality new young British players is simply deluding themselves, we have Many many many more overseas players than we had pre-cap and we aren't seeing clubs bring through lots of quality youngsters, and certainly not lots more than previously

It's time for a complete rethink on the cap

The drop in standards at Wigan, Bradford, Hull and Warrington in the last 3-4 years has been very alarming, with no real threat coming from elsewhere. Catalans had their brief moment in the sun reaching Wembley and having a decent tilt last year, but realistically they were never going to win SL last season. HKR and Huddersfield have been hyped up a little bit so far this year, but can you realistically see them winning either trophy?

Saints and Leeds are the benchmark and have developed good standards in SL in the last 3 years, but until the competition improves across the board, even they will be significantly weaker than their NRL counterparts. Saints and Leeds have both had good coaches (Australian/Kiwi) and players over the last 3-4 years which I think is very significant.

Anyone who thinks the standards in SL aren't dropping needs to have a look at the GB/England performances and the lack of British world class players which have developed in the last 10 years. Our competition is filled with mediocre British players, over the hill aussies, and players from the southern hemisphere who aren't good enough for the NRL. All we are developing are more and more average youngsters who are coming into a game which is all about pace, power and attrition rather than the higher levels of skill we saw 10+ years ago.

The difference between us and the aussies isn't that they are any different to us when they start playing, it's that at every stage of the game in Oz they have a much better quality of coaching. Goes right through from the kids to 1st grade. Until we get that right we'll never produce top class players in large numbers

The games on sky this year have been mostly cack because they keep showing the bottom sides,Wigan,Warrington,Bradford are on every week,Cas have been on once!