They aren't anywhere. That doesn't mean we should include small clubs that have little to no chance of competing, just for the sake of it. If the league reverts to 12 teams, would Featherstone be stronger than any of the current 12 SL clubs? Do they have the potential to become stronger than any of the top 12? Would Featherstone being promoted mean replacing a relatively strong team with a weaker team with less potential? The answer is almost certainly yes. People can make up romantic ideas about them 'earning their place' but the truth is that we would be weakening Super League and crippling a relatively strong club for no reason, that's the crux of the argument.

But a system of automatic promotion and relegation means that they will be placed into the top league regardless of whether they are good enough or not. The current system would cater for Featherstone being included if they were one of the strongest 12 clubs. The fact that they aren't and people are advocating introducing a system designed to artificially promote them regardless is absolute backwards nonsense.

Dubai?
Hong Kong?
Sun City?
Toulouse?

I'll put you down for the 'leadership, direction and vision is better than drift' faction, rather than the 'natural evolution is better than manipulation' one, then shall I?



It is a fair-ish summation of the question, though the answer isn't as obvious, IMO, as you seem to think. Invisible hand, natural selection, blah'dy, blah'dy, blah'dy.

The correct answer isn't so much a problem for me, as that we consistently duck the question or change our collective mind.

The non-fed rule is a good example, IMO. Decent idea, if the assumption that overseas players are blocking the progress of our own and that there is a wealth of domestic potential going to waste, were accurate. Orthodoxy now though is that actually there isn't enough talent to go around. 'We' don't think things through very well, and though well intentioned the interventions often don't lead where we'd like. The constant flip-flopping that follows is destabilising and everybody gets frustrated with the RFL and their 'vision'.
Fewer manipulations, fewer frustrations and less distrust - perhaps. The clubs themselves then have to face up to the tough choices, neither looking to the RFL for some miracle cure-all nor being able to blame them for rigging the game against them.

Headhunter - for the umpteenth time - which club do you go and watch through the turnstiles?

It's pretty obvious by your retarded posts and WUM attitude what the answer is.

Does anybody have a cow?

WE ALREADY HAVE SMALL CLUBS WITH NO CHANCE OF COMPETING YOU PILLOCK

Sport shouldn't be about "can they add anything more than Castleford". It's pathetic. Stagnation is what is currently happening in SL and the most important people in that league have decided enough is enough. Little keyboard non-fans like Headhunter have no clue about the reality of running a club.

I look forward to a new era with great anticipation and the fact that idiots like Headhunter and Smokey are spitting their dummy out is a massive cherry on the top.

Do we think that if a 'small' club like fev go up it will damage rugby league somehow? I have posted the attendance figures showing the damage below superleague which I believe franchising has done... But as long at this does not affect the top clubs that's not a problem is it? I guess not as you have nearly avoided mentioning it at all so it must be a painful truth I guess, either that it it is sofas beneath you it is simply inconsequential.

I really wonder what world you live in, where are these new superleague ready clubs with 8000 fans going to come from? Where are these stadiums ready to perfectly fit into superleague so snugly? Dreamland honestly.

There is potential in Toulouse I guess but frankly I think that if there is so much potential in France let them build les superleague of there own...freeing up space for an all English superleague. This is I understand a separate debate all on its own.

How else can we create superleague standard clubs, unless we let them grow into superleague by participation?

When superleague was first established fev finished one place below. When we win the league for three years we couldn't go up each time due to franchising. If you have never been in this position you cannot understand the frustration. No wonder people come out with conspiracy theories about the whole structure, it is utter madness.

A club goes up, a club goes down. Some might be run badly and go bust. I would be astonishes if they collapse as badly as Bradford, crusaders, or even maybe the broncos now, but that wouldn't be any worse than what's happening now, and at least there is a chance of putting new blood and fresh players into superleague.
Go on giz a chance we've been waiting ages!

. Double post

Where's this fantastic SL that is being revered about. 17 years of elitism for a few privileged clubs. And a closed shop which has seen clubs struggle and go to the wall.

Why is it such a problem for the likes of fev, fax, leigh or Sheffield to have ambition to gatecrash.

I attend regular forums at fev where I can put my views, questions and concerns to the chairman, CEO and commercial manager and I get an honest and informed response. Sorry smokey, headhunter et al, I can see the level of professionalism, forward thinking and visible progress at the club. And why won't we compete given the same salary cap and a backer who is able and willing to spend it.

I am 100% certain that fev will ofer as much if not more than cas, Wakefield, salford, hull kr, London, Bradford and with the investment that is being talkedaabout then Huddersfield Warrington and then saints, leeds and wigan. Fev are growing at a manageable rate and are at the stage where SL is viable. Come along to our next forum and ask your questions. Please don't spout off rubbish.

Once again, can somebody, anybody tell me the disasterous consequences suffered by Leigh due to their promotion to and relegation from SL?

Maybe they can point us in the direction of some University running a degree course on ' Being a SL club ' ?

A night course at college perhaps?

Anybody have a cow?

OK, what's with the cow?????

Its obvious innit

Alas no. As Smokey has already pointed out - I do not understand anything that is going on.

If we have a cow, we can swap it for some magical SL Club beans, then smokey and Headhunter can along with big Nige plant them where they want their new mega clubs


Derrrrrr

That's the idea of Tragic Weekend. We take a load of SL fixtures to a different big city each season and they all fall in love with the greatest game by wanting their very own SL club. The stadiums are already in place. Have you not noticed the Tragic Weekend working it's Magic?

And the system we have now didn't artificially promote Celtic and Kill them off? Think they faired better than Featherstone would?

Clueless Pratt

No, no, no, no, NO freddie, the Celtic Crusaders won promotion fair and square, how they managed to run a full time squad of players all with company cars ( all included in salary cap ) but most without a legal Visa all on paying attendances similar to Swinton, with a 150K salary cap ,playing out of SL standard

Brewery Field has never been explained

I don't see what relevance this has to anything, but both on and off the field Celtic performed about as well in their first year as Featherstone probably would, and in their second year considerably better. They also finished 2nd in the Championship in their promotion season and lost the Championship GF in extra time, so would have gone up under any system as the league was expanding to 14 teams. For the poster above, they also had a higher average attendance than Leigh in their one Championship season. They failed because the owner was a crook, not that any of this is relevant to anything in this thread so I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring it up.

There aren't any, that's why the proposed new system is nonsense. Replacing clubs that struggle to compete with even weaker clubs with less potential isn't progress. I don't support any of the 'top clubs' so I'm not sure what you are talking about in regards to that, but surely you can understand that having uncompetitive clubs in Super League isn't a good thing. And yes, there are two uncompetitive clubs at the moment. One will be competitive next year (Salford), and the other probably won't exist (London). Regardless, Super League is being reduced to 12 teams and we probably have 12 or 13 competitive clubs ATM, so the idea of relegating one of those clubs and replacing them with an uncompetitive club is totally illogical. If you seriously think that Featherstone can be competitive without reducing the standards of the league then good luck to you, and I hope you're right. What I don't want to see is standards at the top being reduced so that clubs such as Featherstone are able to compete, which is what some people on this forum seem to be advocating.
Like I said, if you honestly believe that Featherstone and similar clubs can compete without standards in Super League being reduced to allow it, then good luck to you. I think you're in for a rude awakening though. Surely you can agree though that limiting the standard of Super League and holding back development to allow the likes of Featherstone to compete would be a bad thing?

I applaud all the work being done at Fev, but would add a slight word of caution.

Your owner has mentioned that he would be happy to place a 7 figure sum in escrow as some form of assurance if Fev were to step up to replace London in 2014.......the problem is, in late 2012 the owner of Bradford said something along the lines of he'd look to invest 2 million over a number of years but has in fact already shipped 1.74 million inside 12 months.
Bradford are averaging 8,800 or so this year yet have needed 1.74 million in "assistance" from their owner and a 200k loan from the council just to pay their wages. Fev would look to average maybe 3k less than Bradford.....the 7 figure guarantee wouldn't go very far and if you were getting spanked every week, neither would the fans. Better to let London stumble through 2014 and then test your "progress" in 2015 with the middle 8 scenario.

For Headhunter I said PAYING attendances, I attended Leighs matches at Brewery field, they had 2 local union matches on before them, let 2 coachloads of German tourists in, had several hundred armed service personell all let in free and the local youths were climbing over the fenes to enter

So explain the full time squad on 150 K?

It was the most poorly organised club I have ever visited, the stewards were telling me the attendance at the leigh game was the biggest by far they had had that year, we stayed over and on both nights around.Bridgend nobody even knew there was a RL team playing at Brewery Field, and this was 400 yards from the stadium

It was a complete farce

So where are these clubs with ' Potential ' ?

Spot on, but if they want to risk it, it is up to them, as you pointed out on another thread a couple of weeks ago, this new structure does give clubs a remit to build themselves in financial terms with regards income streams, and not all clubs will skin the cat the same way

Dont forget the Championship Clubs by their very nature are probably better organised than some SL clubs because they have had to be to survive

Headhunter, they clearly weren't a well run club, especially after the RFL got involved.

All those people you disingenuously called flat cappers so it coming! Most if those flat cappers wanted licensing to work fairly and saw this coming - Celtic were the thin end if the wedge.

Parachuting a club into SL when unprepared doesn't work, you are correct, so why the hell bang on about creating new "franchises"?

Surely the answer is to invest in and improve what we have instead of strangling them? Give a sporting goal to aim to raise enthusiasm at a club?

Just keep digging from here