Yes of course.....York claimed to have 366 pubs, and I failed to see how that was at all relevant. I have this idea that even clubs like Workington have some wonderful local pubs. I know I'd love a train ride to York but have done that many times. A train ride up to the Cumbrian coast and some Cumbrian ale though would be fantastic. Town for Superleague



The Toulouse bid nearly sold me on a trip to the city, but I'd rather do Paris again despite having gone there several times. Not that I think we should bring Paris back....

The relevant parts of the Toulouse bid was the idea of a TV broadcast deal which of course is a REAL criteria for admitting overseas clubs to Superleague. When Toulouse first asked to come into Superleague Lenegan said they needed a paying TV deal and of course they and Catalans have strived over the years to secure such a paying deal to no avail.

That is a very big failing sadly.

The Toulouse bid did major heavily on the player production and grass roots work. That put Les Catalans to absolute shame. Schools, amateurs, women and wheelchair RL in numbers. But the problem there is despite having such a set up it doesn't translate into the production of SL quality players.

It may not even translate into the production of Championship level players, despite a fair old run in the English game dating back some years. At this point in they are a top championship club on the field. but this is achieved with 12 quality imports in the starting 17............

TO have to give it a go but for years ( since 2014) the summary of Ian Lenegan's view on their Superleague ambitions remains the same "[iToulose need to back their application with the evidence of French players capable of playing at Superleague level , a viable financial plan and a television deal l[/i

Sadly with a heavy heart they just do not do that. I find it very easy to love French Rugby League ....Very easy.....But I find it impossible to countenance the idea of a Catalans.v.Toulose derby in Superleague that doesn't bring in a centime of TV money and involves two Anglo-antipodeam sides with hardly a frenchman in sight.....

That's what Gausch has turned Catalans into that's what Toulouse would have to be.

I thought Lenagan just dictated about stopping any money going to clubs outside Super League clubs.
Seems he now dictates how other clubs must conduct themselves.
Pleasing that he didn't instruct Toulouse to improve the French national side.

He did......

Richard Lewis felt International RL was the way forward for the game hence Catalans were lifted into the Superleague in 2006 when they tried out a total of 21 French players in readiness for the return of the Great Britain.v.France test matches.

2007 saw that return at Headingley, that was a one sided affair with France eventually overwhelmed. Of course this was given time to build, a lot of time to build, and when Toulouse asked to come in to join Catalans Lenegan certainly told them they had to develop "capable" professional SL level French players. This was obviously in the hope two French clubs may have just underpinned at least a competetive French International test team.

But as we see now, both Les Catalans and Toulouse build their teams around a strong core of Antipodean and English players. 2006 is 14 years ago and in that 14 years the number of quality of French players has actually gone down Few are first picks for Superleague clubs.

So sadly these two iconic French clubs could only go forward in Superleague by fielding Anglo Aussie teams. But the second real problem is that neither provide any TV revenue let alone top players, yet quite a number of people keep blurting out "Toulouse" for the 2021 12th. place.

This phenomenon of people supporting clubs for inclusion in SL that have no value at all to Superlague (see Elstone's report) , has been evident since they felt Toronto Wolfpack was the future of the game back in 2016. Romanticism is fine by me, but we do need hard headed business decisions on these matters........

You say hard headed business decisions are needed, but you continue to champion Bradford as team 12.

A bit of a contradiction.

Here are some crowds

Bradford.v.Leeds 24,020...............Touluse.v.York 650
Leeds,v,Bradford 21,666..............Touluse.v. Featherstone 1068
Saints.v.Bradford 15,042..............Toulouse.v. Hunslet 645
Bradford.v.Wigan 17,267.............. Touluse.v.Batley 868
Hull.v. Bradford 14,124.............. Toulose.v.Barrow 602........................................Bit of a difference

You have been telling everyone for months during the Toronto issue that crowds are not a measure of success.

How many times have Bradford gone into administration over the last 15 odd years?

Who are their backers and proof of funds for financial stability? The two exact things that you criticise Toronto and Ottawa for almost on a daily basis.

It's hypocrisy on your part and this time you're caught between a rock and a hard place.

That's easy. The answer to those two questions are 476 times and None.

[urlhttps://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/12155294/super-league-2021-leigh-centurions-on-the-march-again?fbclid=IwAR3pV958nOtT0LC_xsf74GhMii4HHw4FIsaB78ysoC7QFMpT4LO8OrBwVi8[/url

Nice one Sky Sports

Sky with their finger firmly on the button. Only took them 8 days after Leigh’s bid to report on it.

Hi Bulls4. Regarding RL in Europe, the only button over which SkY's finger is presently hovering is the one marked "Eject".

That might not be such a bad thing for clubs outside SL.

Get yourself over to TRL. They have worked out that Bradford to Superleague followed by Newcastle to the Championship means there are two places to fill in league one.

Suggestions of course included Villeneuve, Carcassone, Avignon and Lezignan, before it was pointed out that Ottawa and New York were already lined up. But it remained a case of the more the merrier. Someone then pointed out there wasn't the adequate talent in France to stock these clubs, then someone pointed out that there isn't the talent in England as we import so many Aussies so what's good for English clubs should be good for North American and French clubs.

So you'd have a great time there re-inventing League one as a transatlantic French-Canadian League played out by Antipodeans.

Meanwhile in the real world................

The Premiership is a massive League here in England. Not even the might of Celtic and Rangers are given a thought. It seems to work best for them. Insular yes, highly successful erm yes

Also can we stop using crowds from 21 years ago to justify our place please? 24,020 was 1999. Hardly likely to hit those heights again. Potentially get a 20k against Leeds in the summer, if we are playing well, with cheap tickets but that's it.

And as much as I love debating with you Donnyman, The Silent H is right in what he says. Where's the proof of funds? Although his remark about 2 admins and a liquidation isn't relevant as they were different owners to be fair (even though I agree with him) but what's to say the current ones won't bring Admin 3?

This is just BS.
Some people, either through ignorance or due to their own agendas, try to underplay Rugby League's value to Sky - as with all other sports this remains at its heart a commercial transaction which works for both parties.

Sky like having the sport, know it drives its own viewership and subscription base and they get antsy when cup rounds or other things mean they can't have it on every week during the season (hence them picking up the third & fourth choice challenge cup games). It is a valuable commodity and they are willing to pay for it.

I see where you are coming from and it makes sense but RL isn’t massively important to Sky like it used to be. Since Sky took over RL they have bought the rights to F1, RU (only went professional in 1995), Darts, Boxing, Golf and more recently NFL. Some of them even have their own channel which we never have! All which bring in a hell of a lot more money than RL. They could quite easily cut us loose and it wouldn’t dent their income. RL fans will still pay their Sky because they offer a lot more than they used to in terms of sports.

I’ll flip your point. If RL is a valuable commodity that SKY are willing to pay for then why is the next SKY deal rumoured to be up to £10million less than the current deal? Surely it would stay the same or be more? Sky want it so they have the monopoly on sport.

Once again ignoring my questions posed and avoiding debate. Why?

I don't need a recount of a forum that you are no longer welcome on but thanks anyway.

Newcastle get the Championship spot.

What a surprise.

Suppose it’s no surprise, and I know some will say it’s not as important, but was it just me who missed the application process?

Don’t get me wrong, Newcastle are probably the stand out candidate but were they just picked or did they apply for it? No applications from the Cumbrian sides etc?

5 clubs applied. The other 4 being Barrow, Doncaster, Rochdale and Workington.

The RFL appointed a panel led by Dean Andrew OBE to carry out the review.

Thanks Wanderer. I did think I must have missed it surely

Can't believe Rochdale applied. When they went down they started recruiting NCL lads, not necessarily from the Premier Division either. No disrespect meant to the NCL, and I understand Rochdale will need to cut their cloth, but those are not the actions of a club determined to gain promotion and stay up.

Well I’m not convinced Bradford have recruited well for SL

While I generally get most posts of yours & what you are trying to convey, I feel this example is disingenuous.

You've taken Bradford games from their heyday *when they were spending way beyond their means & charging buttons for tickets* against top drawer opposition & West Yorkshire derbies.

While I agree that Toulouse attendances may be on the low side & subject to some *creative accounting* , you have picked some of the least attractive Toulouse fixtures & pitted them head to head against Bradfords most attractive fixtures, hardly fair !!!

If you are picking Toulouse fixtures then you pick TO13 v Leigh, Toronto, Bradford, Featherstone for example, not Batley, Barrow & Hunslet !
I am reasonably sure that a Super League fixture of Toulouse Olympique v Catalans Dragons could realistically draw 6,000 +, however, even in Super League I find it hard to believe they would be better supported (on average attendances) than say Huddersfield & Wakefield, maybe better supported than Salford though.

Toulouse have for my money, something to offer Super League, eventually & if supported to do that, but are just not quite ready, in a similar way to Toronto, their inclusion must be planned for, NRL style, not hung on a wing & a prayer !!!

I'm not sure I ever got a genuine debate from you. Let's just leave it there.............