It is important to note that the advantages TWP were going to bring here were twofold as stated by Perez in July 2016, those were an NATV deal and NA players. So far the achievements are zero and zero. "Crowds" in any shape or form were never mentioned by Perez. In fact the removal of clubs here for NA clubs would depress crowds as TWP would not bring fans here. You watch the western terrace at Headingley when the useless Cas Fartown Bradford and Wakefield turn up against the same terrace when Crusaders, London, Catalans and Toulouse turned up.

I've noted so many arguments that "away" fans don't matter and should not count, I have been so convinced of this that I have now started to turn away potential customers for my own business who could not show me proof they live in my postcode area. Just the other week I stopped off at a Tesco in Castleford and was turned away at the door when I could not prove a Castleford address.

In true Kevin Keegan style, I absolutely love this.
Having said that, relying on away fans wont save any club. Although it a true twist of irony, it's worth noting that Catalan, Toulouse and Toronto do somewhat better on this front.
Not only enjoying the numbers of visiting fans but, also giving a boost to their local economies and most fans will stay for a few days and spend their hard earned cash whilst staying there.
A mere drop in the ocean for a city like Toronto but, decent income for both Perpignan and Toulouse.

I don't discriminate between fans? Customers are customers wherever they come from that's my point. let me try it this way....2022 10 club Superleague.....

(a) Hull.v.HKR, Castleford.v.Wakefield, Leeds.v.Wigan Wire.v.Saints and Fartown.v.Salford what? 58,000 customers...or

(b) Hull.v.TWP, Wigan.v.New York, Leeds.v.Ottawa, Wire.v.Boston. Saints v.Montreal what? 48,000 customers

Forget putting fans in boxes which business model do we go for 2022 English or Transatlantic?? You choose....

I never cast aspersions Donnyman, but I a am still unsure of your credentials..... Theres a tad of the unsure about you..... You're like the alterego that was missing from the russian doll set

You are the suspicious one, aren't you?

QED!

The names Drake, John Drake.

While i get your point it's a little simplistic. What about TV veiwers and the wider global apeal to broadcasters

Following on from my assertion we need to maximise crowds and not be prejudice against "away" supporters, it also occurred to me (eventually) that if we plump for a Transatlantic league and not an English league 2022 then another issue is not just "no away fans"

Hull Daily Mail asked fans in Hull what they thought of the North American dream and 20% were fine with it and 80% were not happy with it. Let's work on 18,000 RL fans attending matches in Hull on a regular basis. If HKR were made to stand down for Ottawa, how many HKR fans would walk away from the game? Do Hudgell and Crossland walk with them? Do any HKR fans bother any more? If so how many? I suggest maybe the vast majority as when Rovers were at their lowest ebb 1,000 crowds were reached.

But that was at a time the club had hope and ambition, to be rejected for good for a Transatlantic League may see crowds drop to the hundreds and eventually New Craven Park become Industriai units? But what do the 11,000 Hull fans do? Do they rejoice at the demise of their hated rivals? Or in times of adversity do Hull fans start to boycott the Transatlantic League in numbers? 80% of 11,000 Hull fans is quite a pressure group? We have already see solidarity with rivals when they wanted to do away with Fev and Cas and have one team called Calder. I don't think that the debate here is whether foreign clubs "boost their local economies" it's whether they will destroy the game here? Your view of crowds here under a five-five split Transatlantic league??

A wiser man than I once said

Good points for both kinds of league, but i think times have moved on. These days its all about profile and image and fans come a distant 3rd. For anyone loking to invest in a share of superleague, they will be looking at image. Would they rather be looking at featherstone, leigh, cas and salford, or new york, toronto, london and paris/tolouse/boston?

Like all successful things i think it will turn out to be a mix of tradition and progression

By the way have we even discussed the equity news yet?
[url=https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/super-league-close-to-private-investment/news here[/url

Quote ="AXE2GRIND" Speaking of their blinding success to date, I find it very strange there's been no mention of a 2020 sponsor and no sign of a 2020 playing shirt. This points to both continued troubles with suppliers and AirTransat's 3-year tenure as shirt sponsor for flights as having come to an end. They signed SBW and followed this up by extending some pretty average players contracts and all we've heard is that they expect to sell an extra 1,000 ST's on the back of SBW...it all sounds really sustainable, doesn't it? '" there's just this bit of info on their kit deal https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/toro ... gue-debut/

Quote ="AXE2GRIND" Speaking of their blinding success to date, I find it very strange there's been no mention of a 2020 sponsor and no sign of a 2020 playing shirt. This points to both continued troubles with suppliers and AirTransat's 3-year tenure as shirt sponsor for flights as having come to an end. They signed SBW and followed this up by extending some pretty average players contracts and all we've heard is that they expect to sell an extra 1,000 ST's on the back of SBW...it all sounds really sustainable, doesn't it? '" there's just this bit of info on their kit deal https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/toro ... gue-debut/

Quote ="the artist"Good points for both kinds of league, but i think times have moved on. These days its all about profile and image and fans come a distant 3rd. For anyone loking to invest in a share of superleague, they will be looking at image. Would they rather be looking at featherstone, leigh, cas and salford, or new york, toronto, london and paris/tolouse/boston? Like all successful things i think it will turn out to be a mix of tradition and progression By the way have we even discussed the equity news yet? [url=https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/super-league-close-to-private-investment/news here[/url'" Interesting. It will be key that the TV rights are up-sold for this to generate a ROI for this investor and it would seem that an announcement is imminent. Quote ="the artist"there's just this bit of info on their kit deal https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/toro ... gue-debut/'" BLK may well ask for money up front if stories from other suppliers are to be believed, but it's good that they have a supplier in place, if not a shirt or an announced sponsor.

Quote ="the artist"Good points for both kinds of league, but i think times have moved on. These days its all about profile and image and fans come a distant 3rd. For anyone loking to invest in a share of superleague, they will be looking at image. Would they rather be looking at featherstone, leigh, cas and salford, or new york, toronto, london and paris/tolouse/boston? Like all successful things i think it will turn out to be a mix of tradition and progression By the way have we even discussed the equity news yet? [url=https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/super-league-close-to-private-investment/news here[/url'" Interesting. It will be key that the TV rights are up-sold for this to generate a ROI for this investor and it would seem that an announcement is imminent. Quote ="the artist"there's just this bit of info on their kit deal https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/toro ... gue-debut/'" BLK may well ask for money up front if stories from other suppliers are to be believed, but it's good that they have a supplier in place, if not a shirt or an announced sponsor.

"Private equity" or investment into a private commercial operation, looks to make ambitious but well considered changes to said operation to make it more profitable and thus get a return on the investment that may outweigh simply buying shares in public companies. Wiki puts this in a dozen paragraphs where a sentence will do.

Yes the Private Equity money is flowing into British and Irish Rugby Union, and it may be their plan is to form a major season long league (such as one) that does away with the parochial "midlands and south" English league and pits Cardiff, and Swansea, Dublin, Edingburgh and Glasgow against the giants of English Rugby Union, a league that they project may attract more sponsors, wealthier owners, bigger paying crowds and much better TV deals. The Private Equity guys are then given a return on their investment, the principle is it is NOT charity.

So how do we restructure to increase revenues ? Superleague started to lose it's parochialness but in a very poor way, dumping Widnes for Catalans 2006 hardly achieved any return at club level, BUT the main aim was France/GB internationals before big crowds and on TV. That bombed. Then the idea was to ship playing squads from poor clubs here to the likes of Toronto whilst they developed new and exciting players, brought in TV deals and major sponsors - so how is that going - last I heard they were heading for a £10M loss??? These PE guys don't want a cut of those losses do they? They may find us some real growth but they want their cut and they certainly aren't miracle workers. BTW Boston don't exist even as a plan? These boys don't invest in dreams.

It appears to me the Private Equity guys are to negotiate the SKY TV deal working out what will deliver us the best (reduced) deal possible, the PE guys would then push us towards certain changes that maximises SKY's deal BUT going Transatlantic ain't going to do it is it? How many SKY subs do we sell there? Maybe they'll dump TWP and Les Cats and bring Bradford and Leigh back in? Maybe Perez's new "temping"job will become permanent

A different slant on the PE story https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10574736 ... ot-happen/

A different slant on the PE story https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10574736 ... ot-happen/

Quote ="Mr Dog"A different slant on the PE story https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10574736 ... ot-happen/'" And there we go again, rugby League is full to the brim with all this cobblers about new dawns, expanding boundaries and massive investments. Let's just admit we are what we are, give SKY an all English League and carry on making the best of it as we largely have done since 1896. Sack off the johnny foreigners, bring back Leigh and Bradford, and make Perez permanent here where he can use his charms to a positive effect.....

Quote ="Mr Dog"A different slant on the PE story https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/10574736 ... ot-happen/'" And there we go again, rugby League is full to the brim with all this cobblers about new dawns, expanding boundaries and massive investments. Let's just admit we are what we are, give SKY an all English League and carry on making the best of it as we largely have done since 1896. Sack off the johnny foreigners, bring back Leigh and Bradford, and make Perez permanent here where he can use his charms to a positive effect.....

what would the benefit be of fast tracking 2 failed clubs? If they can both get their act together and gain entry by promotion then that is fine but there is absolutely no way they should be fast tracked. Especially ahead of clubs are swimming with money and can contribute to the bigger picture

Well Steph it's about the fine details of these matters.

(1) Argyle is personally "swimming with money", but TWP are £5,000,000 in a debt that's growing fast, no player development, and no TV deal, and they are of no value to SKY.

Your mixing up the owner and the club - Two separate things. If Mr. Argyles potash companies sponsored SL for £60M a year you would be correct, but I believe he would not be able to do this due to conflict of interest. Look carefully Steph. All Argylle offers superleague is no "away fans" can I ask you how you think they somehow "contribute to the bigger picture"??

(2) I'd agree with you that Bradford and Leigh need to get their act together but Bradford are only short of a big sponsor/wealthy owner albeit Perez knows a number of very rich people who like Rugby League, and Leigh only short of an academy albeit they planned to share one with Salford. Both will attract SKY subscribers - neither TWP or Les Cats can do that.

You must remember Steph Mr. Argyle and Toronto Wolfpack are two separate things. Only the former is swimming with money, the latter is swimming in debt and adds nothing to the TV deal or player development. Can I ask you why you do not understand this??

You'll have to wait for JEAN to log off and log back on as Steph for an answer.

TWP totally failed on their goals and yet Steph Curry, Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer, Peter Gurney, Peter Davey, Dan Whiddon, Harry Hawk and uncle Jean cobbly and all, think it's all been a roaring success. You can't knock the Perez effect. I hope he stays at Bradford and finds them a rich backer here.....Keys to the city for me if he did that.......

a rejuvinated Bradford would add way more to SL than the TWP vanity scheme.

Imagine if the NRL endorsed Hong Kong Dragons or some such similar rich mans toy.

Yeah..... And replaced a failing club with little support wjo are having to sell off bits of their sradium to make ends meet and who didnt even have a main shirt sponsor a few back..... JEANS very own Sharkies....... I wonder how Jeabron would react to that?

Mate, I truly believe that Perez and Argylle asked Nigel Wood for a place in the English Championship at a time Nige was heading for a big job at the Rugby League INTERNATIONAL Federation. He could not turn them down and keep his internationalist credentials intact could he?. They ambushed him.

David Argyle is RL through and through and rich to boot, what a fabulous asset he could be to the game here..........But he won't come here for gawds sake........He was born in Aussie, he lives in Canada and his current business appears to be in Brazil. All the daft beggar has to do is buy Bradford Bulls and make Odsal the state of the art RL national stadium they planned it to be in 1954.

His guru Perez is there, so why not? C'mon David, come live here, buy the Bulls, make Odsal the wembley of the north and watch the Challenge cup final there break modern day records. Take the Bulls back to the top. Get that Leeds rivalry going again, put 25,000 into the stadium for the derby. I would personally fall at the mans feet if he did this.........

Classic...