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| Why are the bulls getting special treatment because of ''iconic status''?
They aren't bloody iconic anymore are they? They're a lump of sh*t. I'm sick of the whole fiasco and would be glad to see the back of them.
Points deduction and relegation please.
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| Quote ="j.c"It might be a good return for the rfl but its real cheap rent for the bulls'"
Plus it's only a good return whilst the bulls can afford to pay it, which only lends itself to the conclusion that it's in the RFL interest to protect their investment and not penalise the bulls.
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| Quote ="Tricky2309"Plus it's only a good return whilst the bulls can afford to pay it, which only lends itself to the conclusion that it's in the RFL interest to protect their investment and not penalise the bulls.'"
Hang on, this can't go both ways - either it's cheap rent for the bulls, meaning that it can be afforded to be paid even in the case of relegation (especially given the circumstances of much increased funding for the championship clubs) OR the rfl have an interest in keeping Bradford in the top division because it's not a good deal. It can't be both.
78k pa is easily payable even on championship funding (given they're looking at spending over 6x that on the salary cap) so, the question is how likely are we to see Bradford drop down 3 - 4 divisions, to a point where by the rent becomes extortionate enough for them to move out, in the ~15 years it would take to break even? Ceasing trading is the biggest threat to this, but the rfl never hid the fact they were a last case purchaser when they were in administration so it seems unlikely (there are safety nets in place rather) - so to drop down to a point whereby the price point is unreasonable takes fairly major drops in playing standard which in the time frame, is, whilst not impossible, highly improbably - after all, who was playing 4th division 15 years ago and is now in superleague? (It's easier to go up than down!)
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Hang on, this can't go both ways - either it's cheap rent for the bulls, meaning that it can be afforded to be paid even in the case of relegation (especially given the circumstances of much increased funding for the championship clubs) OR the rfl have an interest in keeping Bradford in the top division because it's not a good deal. It can't be both.
78k pa is easily payable even on championship funding (given they're looking at spending over 6x that on the salary cap) so, the question is how likely are we to see Bradford drop down 3 - 4 divisions, to a point where by the rent becomes extortionate enough for them to move out, in the ~15 years it would take to break even? Ceasing trading is the biggest threat to this, but the rfl never hid the fact they were a last case purchaser when they were in administration so it seems unlikely (there are safety nets in place rather) - so to drop down to a point whereby the price point is unreasonable takes fairly major drops in playing standard which in the time frame, is, whilst not impossible, highly improbably - after all, who was playing 4th division 15 years ago and is now in superleague? (It's easier to go up than down!)'"
How can they drop 3 or 4 divisions?
Why do you think 78k is easily payable by championship clubs?.
Who was playing in a 4th division 15yrs ago and is now playing in SL?
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| 2013 was my last visit to Odsal if the RFL dont deduct points as they did to Wakefield. We are supposed to have a level playing field. I am not the only one making this decision.
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| 2013 was my last visit to Odsal if the RFL dont deduct points as they did to Wakefield. We are supposed to have a level playing field. I am not the only one making this decision.
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| 2013 was my last visit to Odsal if the RFL dont deduct points as they did to Wakefield. We are supposed to have a level playing field. I am not the only one making this decision.
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| 2013 was my last visit to Odsal if the RFL dont deduct points as they did to Wakefield. We are supposed to have a level playing field. I am not the only one making this decision.
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| Quote ="j.c"How can they drop 3 or 4 divisions?
'"
Kinda my point, the point where central funding becomes less than the quoted rent is the league below championship 1 - the secured rent can be taken from what Bradford are paid, rather than waiting on Bradford to pay.
Quote ="j.c"
Why do you think 78k is easily payable by championship clubs?.
'"
The proposed funding for championship clubs are well above those numbers? If the rfl are paying them more than they expect, it's seems secure.
Quote ="j.c"
Who was playing in a 4th division 15yrs ago and is now playing in SL?'"
Nobody I can think of, hence it seems unlikely for them to fall beyond a point where they don't have secured rfl income that's more than the rent hasn't happened in a long long while
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| 78k seems cheap.
I guess that's just based on the roi the RFL want on their lease investment, as they don't own the freehold.
Is it also intended to pay back interest on the prior loan to the RFL? or is that just taken as the value of the lease? (1.2M?)
For comparison, the last figure I heard for Belle Vue was 100k per year rental from the BOI (or whoever is acting on their behalf).
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| Are the RFL a creditor of the Bulls?
If so, how much has this admin cost the game?
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| They owed money to more than just ok didn't they and were apparently going to be the subject of a winding up order by HMRC, so the question is how have they been allowed to enter a pre pack and come out the other side issuing a statement that the first team squad is now ring fenced?
I would imagine the players were the only assets likely to realise any value to pay off the creditors so how are the creditors gonna be paid a decent portion of what they are owed now?
This is the second time administrators have allowed a deal to be done that seems to be more in the bulls favour than that of their creditors. If talks were on going for certain players to leave, I would have thought the administrators should have allowed them to conclude and free up cash for the creditors?
I am asking these questions cos I don't understand the process fully, but have seen what happened at Wakefield when we were in admin and players were sold for a pittance.
The half super league money was an agreement to allow the bulls to retain their super league status wasn't it, so they had a choice at that stage to drop out and rebuild. Once they decided to stay in, they then had a chance to trim their squad costs likely we have done this year and again chose not to.
Wakefield were told and rightly so that if they went into admin in August last year which was Glover s plan, they would be out of super league so why should the bulls be any different?
Even with a points deduction they have still obtained an unfair advantage keeping their squad in tact.
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| This isnt the end of the saga though.
Where are the Bulls going to get the finances to complete the season?
Teams should be relatively flush at the start of the year with all season ticket and sponsor money banked, not going into admin.
It will cost around £300-400k/ month to run a SL club. and there wont be many suppliers or banks offering them credit.
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| Quote ="wakeytrin"2013 was my last visit to Odsal if the RFL dont deduct points as they did to Wakefield. We are supposed to have a level playing field. I am not the only one making this decision.'"
Ok ok we get the point you don't have to repeat it 10 times!
Wakefield got a 4 point deduction. Bradford got 6 points and halving of central cash for two years so this notion if fairness by small minded supporters o other clubs is embarrassing.
By the way 2013 was my last visit to Belle Vue because you hae now got them place on my list of away grounds I'm avoiding.
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| Quote ="Wooden Stand"How utterly arrogant of the Bradford Bulls directors:
a) "we're not going to pay a penny" (to the major creditor) and
b) we're not going to sell ANY of our first team squad.
For a club that's just gone into Administration (again), I can't think of a more clear cut case for a 6 point deduction.'"
Wait for the chanting on the terraces.
"We are Bradford and we do what we want"
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza" By the way 2013 was my last visit to Belle Vue because you hae now got them place on my list of away grounds I'm avoiding.'"
If the RFL do the right thing, there won't be ANY Bulls fans coming to BV this year!
You shouldn't be anywhere near SL.
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Ok ok we get the point you don't have to repeat it 10 times!
Wakefield got a 4 point deduction. Bradford got 6 points and halving of central cash for two years so this notion if fairness by small minded supporters o other clubs is embarrassing.
By the way 2013 was my last visit to Belle Vue because you hae now got them place on my list of away grounds I'm avoiding.'"
Bradford got six points and [uOFFERED[/u to take half of central funds for two years. It wasn't forced - it was offered by your then Chairman.
Let's just hope that they don't [uOFFER[/u the other half this time.
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| Quote ="dboy"If the RFL do the right thing, there won't be ANY Bulls fans coming to BV this year!
You shouldn't be anywhere near SL.'"
You do realise your going to be accused of being small minded?
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| Fair minded is the term you are looking for.
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"Ok ok we get the point you don't have to repeat it 10 times!
Wakefield got a 4 point deduction. Bradford got 6 points and halving of central cash for two years so this notion if fairness by small minded supporters o other clubs is embarrassing.
By the way 2013 was my last visit to Belle Vue because you hae now got them place on my list of away grounds I'm avoiding.'"
I'm happy to pay the lost ticket money for you not to attend, it would indeed be my pleasure.
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| I see that the West Yorkshire folk have descended into in fighting.
Please continue
In the normal world, I can't see the argument for kicking the Bulls out on any level. It makes no sense. Points deduction sure, but kicking them out????
Whilst we are at it can we kick Wigan out for a laugh. No reason required, as it seems to just be fashionable to want to kick any old club out at the moment.
Whilst we are at it can we slap a points deduction on Catalan for being too far away.
I'm all for points deductions, but it must be within the rules. I think a lot of this is in fighting as there are too many West Yorkshire clubs to divide into 12 SL clubs.
If that 4 - 6 points ends up relegating Bradford then so be it, but at least it's in the rules.
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| I don't understand why some fans think we should thrown out. I still don't know any sporting organisations who have thrown a team out for going into admin. Points deduction and let's move on.
In reply to the posters about our rent, I think it has always been extremely cheap, we just look after running costs.
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| The rent can be cheap, and it can be a good rate of return for the RFL.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
If the RFL got the lease at a knock down price, then they do not need to collect exorbitant rent to get a good rate of return.
Personally I would have preferred repayment in 10 years, but 15 is not terrible. The question is would they get more money from sticking it in the bank.
£1.2 million invested just at 2% would take 27 years to recover at £75,000 per year. At that level it does not look as good an investment in terms of just pure money.
I use 2% as my example because £1.2 million invested at 3% with compound interest would never be beaten.
So as a money investment alone, it's not a good rate of return for the RFL. Given that it stabilized the Bulls enough to keep them bobbling along, then it may have other financial benefits, through keeping other partners on board.
If they had let the Bulls fold and the lease was part of the assets, then anyone could have bought the lease. The Bulls could have had no home and dirt bike racing could now well be on the way at Odsal, with no guarantee that the reformed Bulls would be allowed to play at either Odsal or VP.
The RFL would have been down one team for 3 years and sponsors may have been less likely to invest in a league with teams disappearing left right and centre.
In the end it is probably a good deal for the RFL, but in terms of the lease alone, it's not a financial wonder. It's more a breakeven policy at best with the hope the Bulls may one day buy it back at cost value, meaning the RFL just get profit off the rent paid.
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| Quote ="Bull Mania"I don't understand why some fans think we should thrown out. I still don't know any sporting organisations who have thrown a team out for going into admin. Points deduction and let's move on.'"
You have never heard of Glasgow Rangers?? Demoted 2 divisions for their financial ineptitude.
Wakefield were told in no uncertain terms that admin would result in demotion.
Why is it different for the Bulls?
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| Quote ="dboy"You have never heard of Glasgow Rangers?? Demoted 2 divisions for their financial ineptitude.
Wakefield were told in no uncertain terms that admin would result in demotion.
Why is it different for the Bulls?'"
I don't know the full details regarding that but Hearts also went into admin and were only deducted points.
I've no idea why Wakwfield were told they would be relegated if they went into admin and it is wrong if they were told that.
Deduct the appropriate amount of points depending on creditors been paid and let's move on.
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