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They're a loan company BG. They don't kidnap and skin children, they don't organise seal clubbing trips, they don't tie fireworks to cats. They lend money to people who ask to borrow money from them.
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"You are just recycling irrelevant arguements.
Everyone has a view on what they feel is acceptable when it comes to business practice.
Why is it that you criticise some people who say that Provident is over the line they feel is acceptable.
Would you draw the line at anything or do you just not give a damn.
Oh to be so indifferent to real issues.'"
If folk don't like Provident thats fine. I don't like Magners cider so I don't drink it.
To boycott a Widnes game because they are sponsored by Magners however would be pathetic. |
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| Quote ="Richie"They're a loan company BG. They don't kidnap and skin children, they don't organise seal clubbing trips, they don't tie fireworks to cats. They lend =#FF0000money to people who ask to borrow money from them.'"
But they dont just do that there sales people specifically target vulnerable people and do take advantage of them.
They do not sit in nice plush offices saying , "Loans dealt with here", above the door.
There sales staff are effectively self employed agents with very little monitoring of who they sell too. This attracts some dodgy people ( i know investment banks do the same but that is a different matter for now).
They encourage people to take out loans they will struggle to afford.
I worked with one woman who took a loan out and asked why .
They knocked on her door and said would you like some help for christmas, get a small loan from us and the kids can have a nice present from santa for christmas.
Emotionally very good way to get a sale.
Do you know which is there best time of the year for sales,
[size=200Christmas[/size
Do you know who takes out these loans
poor desperate people on housing estates all over Northern England who want to buy their kids something for christmas ( oh i forgot all these poor people have free will, they choose to take out the loans, they are all fat, beer swilling, chain smoking dole scroungers with 50 inch plasmas who have to accept responsibility).
I regard that as pretty low and i draw the line of what i find acceptable.
As i keep saying to Bulls fans buy the shirt if you want, support the club but blank out the sponsors name and show that you might want their money but you dont agree with their methods. |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"But they dont just do that there sales people specifically target vulnerable people and do take advantage of them.
They do not sit in nice plush offices saying , "Loans dealt with here", above the door.
There sales staff are effectively self employed agents with very little monitoring of who they sell too. This attracts some dodgy people ( i know investment banks do the same but that is a different matter for now).
They encourage people to take out loans they will struggle to afford.
I worked with one woman who took a loan out and asked why .
They knocked on her door and said would you like some help for christmas, get a small loan from us and the kids can have a nice present from santa for christmas.
Emotionally very good way to get a sale.
Do you know which is there best time of the year for sales,
[size=200Christmas[/size
Do you know who takes out these loans
poor desperate people on housing estates all over Northern England who want to buy their kids something for christmas ( oh i forgot all these poor people have free will, they choose to take out the loans, they are all fat, beer swilling, chain smoking dole scroungers with 50 inch plasmas who have to accept responsibility).
I regard that as pretty low and i draw the line of what i find acceptable.'"
It is still their choice though. And nothing to do with Bradford Bulls.
Quote As i keep saying to Bulls fans buy the shirt if you want, support the club but blank out the sponsors name and show that you might want their money but you dont agree with their methods.'"
Thats completely fine. Boycotting Bradford completely however is pathetic. |
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| Quote ="Richie"They're a loan company BG. They don't kidnap and skin children, they don't organise seal clubbing trips, they don't tie fireworks to cats. They lend money to people who ask to borrow money from them.'"
Don't let common sense get in the way.
Apparently Omar Khan is the love child of Adolf Hitler, Rajas make the UK's only Kitten burgers, and Provident only take children as security on loans. |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"ranting.'"
The best sales time for most businesses is christmas 
They lend money to people who ask to borrow money from them.
We could come up with such criticisms of any potential sponsor, whether large or small or even enterprise of gov agency. Whether it be a supermarkets use of factory farming a manufacturer using sweatshops, the Royal Mail frequent thefts a charity even and their common chuggers and force fed religion, or the gov itself and expenses abuse. We can come up with a raging criticism of anyone.
Lets save our real fury for those that want to put money into our sport. |
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| Quote ="Ewwenorfolk"Don't let common sense get in the way.
Apparently Omar Khan is the love child of Adolf Hitler, Rajas make the UK's only Kitten burgers, and Provident only take children as security on loans.'"
And EWWENORFOLK is an ostrich or should that be a sheep. baa, baa
Maybe Bradford Bulls should change their name to to the Bradford Ewes to reflect the attitude of their fans. Then again maybe i am being too hard on them, there are probably plenty of decent Bradford fans who feel uncomfortable about it and it is just the sheep who post on rlfansforum. |
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Quote Many Newcastle fans are furious with the plans to have Wonga emblazoned on the front of the famous black and white stripe shirts.
Newcastle fan Michael Martin, editor of the True Faith fanzine, warned the proposed tie-up would be bad for the club.
Sponsorship: Blackpool's shirts are emblazoned with the Wonga logo
He told the Daily Mirror: 'The people who run Newcastle, for the fans, have a social responsibility.
'I would love them to honestly answer one question: Would you, Mike Ashley [Newcastle United owner, seriously recommend borrowing money from Wonga at those interest rates? If you can't answer yes then they shouldn't be our shirt sponsors.
'Newcastle is being used to normalise their product. It cheapens and tarnishes the Newcastle United brand. I wouldn't want my logo next to them, so what do other sponsors think?
'This is close to breaking point for me, the one that breaks the camel's back.'
Read more: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/card ... z2C343WhZm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
'"
Football fans in more socially aware than rugby league fans shocker. |
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Quote Many Newcastle fans are furious with the plans to have Wonga emblazoned on the front of the famous black and white stripe shirts.
Newcastle fan Michael Martin, editor of the True Faith fanzine, warned the proposed tie-up would be bad for the club.
Sponsorship: Blackpool's shirts are emblazoned with the Wonga logo
He told the Daily Mirror: 'The people who run Newcastle, for the fans, have a social responsibility.
'I would love them to honestly answer one question: Would you, Mike Ashley [Newcastle United owner, seriously recommend borrowing money from Wonga at those interest rates? If you can't answer yes then they shouldn't be our shirt sponsors.
'Newcastle is being used to normalise their product. It cheapens and tarnishes the Newcastle United brand. I wouldn't want my logo next to them, so what do other sponsors think?
'This is close to breaking point for me, the one that breaks the camel's back.'
Read more: www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/card ... z2C343WhZm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
'"
Football fans in more socially aware than rugby league fans shocker. | |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"And EWWENORFOLK is an ostrich or should that be a sheep. baa, baa
Maybe Bradford Bulls should change their name to to the Bradford Ewes to reflect the attitude of their fans. Then again maybe i am being too hard on them, there are probably plenty of decent Bradford fans who feel uncomfortable about it and it is just the sheep who post on rlfansforum.'"
Or maybe, just maybe, you are over reacting? |
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I suppose your attitude to the likes of Wonga and PF depends on what you think of other people.
If you believe people have intelligence, thinking capacity and should have a freedom of choice, then you're OK with these comanies.
If you think people don't have intelligence, that you should think for them, and you should make their choices for them, then you're against them.
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| Quote ="Wheels"Or maybe, just maybe, you are over reacting?'"
or maybe i just work with a lot of poor and vulnerable people with big financial problems which are exploited by dodgy loans companies  |
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Quote ="Richie"I suppose your attitude to the likes of Wonga and PF depends on what you think of other people.
If you believe people have intelligence, thinking capacity and should have a freedom of choice, then you're OK with these comanies.
If you think people don't have intelligence, that you should think for them, and you should make their choices for them, then you're against them.'"
Maybe i think that clever people take advantage of vulnerable people. Maybe i think about what i post rather than just have an opinion.
this woman maybe needed someone other than Provident sales reps to think for her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19748048 |
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Quote ="Richie"I suppose your attitude to the likes of Wonga and PF depends on what you think of other people.
If you believe people have intelligence, thinking capacity and should have a freedom of choice, then you're OK with these comanies.
If you think people don't have intelligence, that you should think for them, and you should make their choices for them, then you're against them.'"
Maybe i think that clever people take advantage of vulnerable people. Maybe i think about what i post rather than just have an opinion.
this woman maybe needed someone other than Provident sales reps to think for her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19748048 | |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"or maybe i just work with a lot of poor and vulnerable people with big financial problems which are exploited by dodgy loans companies
'"
Which is ultimately still their own choice.  |
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| Quote ="Wheels"Which is ultimately still their own choice.
'"
see the link in my last post. I would argue that the woman involved was incapable of making an informed choice.
Maybe it would be alright to say to the old woman who lives next door her roof needs fixing and i can do it for £2000. Does not really matter if i can do it for £250 as it is still ultimately her choice. |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"see the link in my last post. I would argue that the woman involved was incapable of making an informed choice.
Maybe it would be alright to say to the old woman who lives next door her roof needs fixing and i can do it for £2000. Does not really matter if i can do it for £250 as it is still ultimately her choice.'"
Ultimately, yes.
It still has nothing to do with Bradford though. |
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"Football fans in more socially aware than rugby league fans shocker.'"
Were the same Newcastle fans outraged at their previous sponsor tying thousands of people into years (even decades) of negative equity with 110% mortgages that, ultimately, saw them go bust and require a huge taxpayer subsidy? |
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Quote ="Durham Giant"Maybe i think that clever people take advantage of vulnerable people. Maybe i think about what i post rather than just have an opinion.
this woman maybe needed someone other than Provident sales reps to think for her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19748048'"
As I said, believe in people in freedom, or be against them and believe you should have the right to think for them.
One out of 1.8m. If that's all, they're one of the fairest organisations, whether private or state, ever in the world. |
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Quote ="Durham Giant"Maybe i think that clever people take advantage of vulnerable people. Maybe i think about what i post rather than just have an opinion.
this woman maybe needed someone other than Provident sales reps to think for her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19748048'"
As I said, believe in people in freedom, or be against them and believe you should have the right to think for them.
One out of 1.8m. If that's all, they're one of the fairest organisations, whether private or state, ever in the world. | |
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| Quote ="bramleyrhino"Were the same Newcastle fans outraged at their previous sponsor tying thousands of people into years (even decades) of negative equity with 110% mortgages that, ultimately, saw them go bust and require a huge taxpayer subsidy?'"
I would guess that many of them did not really have grasp of the American mortgage industry when it was signed but they do know a dodgy British finance company when they see one. |
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| Quote ="Richie"As I said, believe in people in freedom, or be against them and believe you should have the right to think for them.
One out of 1.8m. If that's all, they're one of the fairest organisations, whether private or state, ever in the world.'"
Your top post is quite correct, the second one quite pathetic, The Bulls sponsor isnt perfect, not many successful companies are, unfortunatly ' Beggars cant be choosers ' and as a sport we are the former, hopefully the media attention they are recieving will result in a more honorable business attitude from them |
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Leeds fans should be protesting about their sponsorship by the Leeds Building Society: An elitist financial institution, who more often than not refuse to help the needy and vulnerable, leaving them without financial products, unable to get a loan, whether until their next pay day, or to buy their kids christmas presents.
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| Quote ="Starbug"Your top post is quite correct, the second one quite pathetic, The Bulls sponsor isnt perfect, not many successful companies are, unfortunatly ' Beggars cant be choosers ' and as a sport we are the former, hopefully the media attention they are recieving will result in a more honorable business attitude from them'"
1 example out of 1.8m Starbug.
Do you consider them a worse company than the likes of Barclays, for lending to the people that Barclays won't? |
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| Quote ="Richie"Leeds fans should be protesting about their sponsorship by the Leeds Building Society: An elitist financial institution, who more often than not refuse to help the needy and vulnerable, leaving them without financial products, unable to get a loan, whether until their next pay day, or to buy their kids christmas presents.'"
The LBS are not alone in that, essentially all the mainstream lenders follow the same ' rules of engagement ' they are all to blame for the financial crisis we are currently embroiled in, and ultimatly just as borrowers were stupid to think that taking on anything more than a 90% mortgage was a good idea, the blame for the Bulls financial collapse was the fans , ditto any club in money troubles is down to the fan bases unrealistic expectations |
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| Quote ="Richie"1 example out of 1.8m Starbug.
Do you consider them a worse company than the likes of Barclays, for lending to the people that Barclays won't?'"
They are equally culpable, 4 years ago I requested my lender to reduce my mortage borrowing by 100 K, from 33% of 400K to 10% of 300K , they refused , I then rquested to change my borrowing to interest only, again they refused, that lender was Barclays, their refusal on both counts was completely ilogical , and could if I hadnt found another lender resulted in defaulting my mortgage and losing my home , I have little respect for any Bank
As I said, few if any successful businesses are squeaky clean, life rarely works that way, and again the attention they have recieved from the media will hopefully improve how they operate in the future, and just for the record, I've been involved in the double glazing industry for 25 years , so am very familiar with dishonest salesman/companies and stupid customers, anybody thick enough to believe that if you buy one, you get one free should not be let out of their homes unacompanied , unfortunatley there are millions who want to believe bollox like that , just as there are millions of very vunerable desperate people who ignore the consequences of borrowing what the can not afford |
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Quote ="Durham Giant"Maybe i think that clever people take advantage of vulnerable people. Maybe i think about what i post rather than just have an opinion.
this woman maybe needed someone other than Provident sales reps to think for her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19748048'"
Have you actually watched the show?
I have. It's partisan in the extreme. It has an agenda which is "Payday lenders are bad and Provident are the worst of the bunch and target vulnerable people" and edits it's footage to support it's stance. There's a bit at the start where Peter Crook (possibly the worst name for someone taking up a career in finance ) who's the CEO of Provident appears on one of Provident's own promo videos. But the only footage used is him saying "We visit 1 in 20 homes in the UK every week" while an ominous bass beat plays in the background.
There's also some discontinuity with certain "facts" they put forward, especially round the high street payday loan companies. For one, they can't seem to agree on how long loan applications take. At one point it's 20 minutes then upon visiting the next one it's "and again we were in there for about an hour".
They then have their undercover reporter visiting customers with agents. One old lady, who the film desperately wants us to believe is incapable of looking after herself, has her personal hygiene commented on by the undercover reporter. I'm sorry, but I didn't realise that a lack of personal hygiene means you're incapable of dealing with financial commitments. In fact the old lady seems more on the ball about her loans than the agent was as she corrects the agent on both the total of the money she's given her and how much is being used against which loan.
All in all, it made Provident look less and less like some evil bogeyman, forcing people to take out more and more loans that some would have you believe. Very Michael Moore. |
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Quote ="Durham Giant"Maybe i think that clever people take advantage of vulnerable people. Maybe i think about what i post rather than just have an opinion.
this woman maybe needed someone other than Provident sales reps to think for her.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19748048'"
Have you actually watched the show?
I have. It's partisan in the extreme. It has an agenda which is "Payday lenders are bad and Provident are the worst of the bunch and target vulnerable people" and edits it's footage to support it's stance. There's a bit at the start where Peter Crook (possibly the worst name for someone taking up a career in finance ) who's the CEO of Provident appears on one of Provident's own promo videos. But the only footage used is him saying "We visit 1 in 20 homes in the UK every week" while an ominous bass beat plays in the background.
There's also some discontinuity with certain "facts" they put forward, especially round the high street payday loan companies. For one, they can't seem to agree on how long loan applications take. At one point it's 20 minutes then upon visiting the next one it's "and again we were in there for about an hour".
They then have their undercover reporter visiting customers with agents. One old lady, who the film desperately wants us to believe is incapable of looking after herself, has her personal hygiene commented on by the undercover reporter. I'm sorry, but I didn't realise that a lack of personal hygiene means you're incapable of dealing with financial commitments. In fact the old lady seems more on the ball about her loans than the agent was as she corrects the agent on both the total of the money she's given her and how much is being used against which loan.
All in all, it made Provident look less and less like some evil bogeyman, forcing people to take out more and more loans that some would have you believe. Very Michael Moore. | |
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| Quote ="William Eve"You might need to order more straw for future construction purposes after that effort.'"
So, we've established that you have no clue at all what a straw man is, OK, moving on . ..
Quote ="William Eve"Given the price of season tickets the Bulls had been flogging over the past few seasons, it's clear the previous administration had all those E demographics in mind as C1/C2 and D were abandoning the club in droves due to the lack of on-field success. '"
Please, you're cracking me up. Oh Lord. I see. Your "argument" is that the successful Bulls were followed by C1/C2 and D punters. These, presumably, only like success. Then when these all "abandoned the club in droves", the club cunningly managed to replace 10.000 C1/C2 and D fans with 10,000 E fans. Who never came before, and are presumably too stupid, in your view, to care about the fare on the field, so long as it is cheap!
Did I miss anything?
Well, that is as funny a crackpot proposition as I can remember, so well done for that at least!
Quote ="William Eve"My only surprise is they didn't prey on the vulnerable by offering those £60 season tickets via a credit loan scheme and an APR of 499% payable over 36 months. At least that way, it'd only cost the E's a tenner a month as they pay around £360 for a £60 season ticket loan. Provident Financial will sure as hell show them how it should be done instead.'"
Are you really this stupid, or is it all just for effect?
A £60 loan @ 499% APR over 36 months would be £24.95 a month, not a tenner, and would costs £898.20, not £360.
Quote ="William Eve"Good luck with in getting more sponsors onboard. Cash Converters, Money Shop and Poundland might be interested now...'"
And if they did, your problem with these businesses is what, exactly? Poundland, for example, is a profitable business with UK sales of around £650m which one survey said 99% of its customers would recommend. As I said, you're just a snob. |
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