Basically, it's bias because he picked someone from the team he supports over someone from the team you support. The other way round would just be opinion, right?

We still get hammered when Aus have the ball in hand though up-front.

Maybe it would have been different in last years 4nations if Burgess and Lockers had played.

I see Nathan Browns having a pop at England picking 'foreign' players ie Rangi Chase... www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480 He says..'if something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck..its a duck!' meaning if you look and sound Kiwi or Aussie then you are probably not English!!..so why are they in England squad. I have to agree, I hate it when players are selected who are not English nationals, all kinds of qualification loopholes are explored to find talent we haven't produced oursleves these days, its really quite sad. Having said that I would draw Mr Browns attention to his own nations selection policy. Given the quality and number of homefrown aussies playing in the NRL why do they resort to picking non-aussie players to don the green and gold. For example look at the list below (there are others I could have listed too): Tonie Carroll-NZ Born Karmicheal Hunt-NZ Born Israel Falau-NZ( I think?) Petero Cinoniceva-Fijian Born Brad Thorn-NZ Born Hasem El Masri-Lebanon Born Take note Mr Brown...If they're born outside of Australia..they're probably not Australian!

I see Nathan Browns having a pop at England picking 'foreign' players ie Rangi Chase... www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480 He says..'if something looks like a duck, quacks like a duck..its a duck!' meaning if you look and sound Kiwi or Aussie then you are probably not English!!..so why are they in England squad. I have to agree, I hate it when players are selected who are not English nationals, all kinds of qualification loopholes are explored to find talent we haven't produced oursleves these days, its really quite sad. Having said that I would draw Mr Browns attention to his own nations selection policy. Given the quality and number of homefrown aussies playing in the NRL why do they resort to picking non-aussie players to don the green and gold. For example look at the list below (there are others I could have listed too): Tonie Carroll-NZ Born Karmicheal Hunt-NZ Born Israel Falau-NZ( I think?) Petero Cinoniceva-Fijian Born Brad Thorn-NZ Born Hasem El Masri-Lebanon Born Take note Mr Brown...If they're born outside of Australia..they're probably not Australian!

No. Its biased because he just picked a lot of players for his team, some of which are clearly biased.

I would go with that apart from having one of Sinfield, Burrow or Robinson off the bench to provide something different if we end up out of ideas in attack.

If you swapped Sinfield for Brough you could move Sinfield up to hooker Tomkins to S-O and stick an extra forward on the pitch for 10 or 15minutes, going with a big side for a little while and giving Roby a little rest.

in fact. Id be interested see

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Josh Charnley
3. Jack Reed
4. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Kevin Sinfield
8. James Graham
9. James Roby
10. Jamie Peacock
11. Sam Burgess
12. Gareth Ellis
13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. Lee Mossop
15. Eorl Crabtree
16. Gareth Hock
17. Ben Westwood

Start the game and
1. Kallum Watkins
2. Josh Charnley
3. Jack Reed
4. Ben Westwood
5. Ryan Hall
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Sam Tomkins
8. James Graham
9. Kevin Sinfield
10. Jamie Peacock
11. Sam Burgess
12. Gareth Ellis
13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. Lee Mossop
15. Eorl Crabtree
16. Gareth Hock
17. James Roby

Start the second half. (though I probably wouldn’t pick that pack but certainly something similar)

I dont think I was particularly biased, if I am its only because I have understandably watched more of Wigan than other sides this season.

Im not saying the Wigan players are leaps and bounds better than some of the others, Im just saying that some of them are better suited to some of the roles are mentioned.

For my two cents, I dont think Rangi Chase should be in the England squad, not just because he is ill tempered and ill disciplined, and also quite nasty in some ways, but more because I thought the point of GB becoming England Scotland etc was maybe to put some pride in the shirt the players wear.

Chase is not going to get that same feeling in an England shirt than someone like, for instance, Carvell, Tomkins and the like, and if the teams not got passion it isnt going to win.

And one other thing, Sinfield isnt a hooker, thats the end of it lol

The bottom line is nothing that you said suggested bias. You mentioned Mossop who many people think should be in the team, you mentioned McIlorum who has been one of the form hookers in the league, was included in the team last season when his form wasn't as good as it is now and he's playing better than Burrow (who isn't even good enough to defend in the position he plays) and Henderson who has actually been a little disappointing this year.
Then you mentioned Charnley, who is the form winger in Super League. They are hardly outrageous calls.

The thing you forgot is that saying anything that could be seen as negative about Leeds players, or not including them in your squad, is apparently obvious bias.

If he is to be included, he has played his best rugby for England at Hooker imo.

Burrow has been injured for the past few weeks so I'm not sure where you're going with that. Would you take Mcllorum over Burrow in your team if both were fit and on form?

I was aware Burrow hadn't played for a while so it puts him at a slight disadvantage, but I'm going off the whole of the season since he can't be judged on recent games.

At hooker I'd have McIlorum without a doubt. Macca isn't the exciting dynamic player that Burrow is but he's had a consistent influence on the Wigan team this year and has played well in all of Wigan's big games and been one of the most consistent players in the side. Burrow's a brilliant attacking player and one of the most dangerous in the league on form and McIlorum can't match that, but defensively McIlorum has been outstanding for Wigan and makes a massive difference to the team.

Defence is just as important as attack. I'd rather have McIlorum at hooker for 80 minutes than Burrow, whose defence isn't good enough and he'd have to be pushed out wide so that someone else could cover the defensive duties that a hooker usually does. McIlorum won't be scoring tries like Burrow did in the Grand Final, but Burrow won't be rushing up to put in a big tackle on rampaging prop forward like McIlorum. Different players, different strengths which will suit the needs of different teams in different ways.

I'm not saying McIlorum should definitely make the England side, I was pointing out that suggesting he's good enough to be included isn't bias, it's a perfectly reasonable opinion, particularly when one of the possible candidates (Burrow) hasn't played a lot recently so might naturally be overlooked by someone who doesn't watch him every week anyway.

For me personally Roby is still first choice number 9 and if that's the case then he can play 80 minutes if needed, so a dangerous attacking player like Burrow or Robinson who can also cover in the halves if needed would probably make more sense than having McIlorum who doesn't offer the same impact and plays better with long minutes.

The point was, suggesting an in form player should play for England isn't bias.

Good balanced view, spot on

Short answer:

England v (No offence meant here) smaller side ie France = Burrow, he will catch out lacking defence, and his own defence can be covered with little cost against a weaker side.

England v NZ/Aus = MM, very stronger in defence, can run hard when needed to give big guys a quick breather. He runs and tackles harder than Burrow.

Again, not saying Burrow isnt a great player, just that MM is more suited.

Luke Robinson went on tour, was player of the tour and a stand our for England every time he has pulled the shirt on...unlike a LOOOOOONG list of players mentioned on this thread already

It's a travesty that he hasn't been picked by Macca and the likes of Henderson has.

Apologies for the grammar btw.

Also, does noone else have a slight fear that Watkins and Jones-Bishop would get caught out defensively against Aus and NZ or is that just me?

No, it's not just you

But to be fair, that fear is the same for any wing/centre partnership

I haven't seen that much of Robinson this year, but from what I have he seems to play a bit similar to Roby to me kinda, just not quite as good.

I'm not having a go, but if I was gonna take three hookers for a squad, I would take three different styles of play if I could to use when and if.

Again I may be completely wrong here lol

I don't think Jones-Bishop would make the team given the competition on the wing. Watkins defence might be an issue but this years internationals are essentially a training ground. Most young centres struggle defensively because it's a difficult position to defend in. It's all part of the learning curve for young players and if a youngster in an important position can get games at international level without being thrown to the wolves against a side like Australia or New Zealand then I think it's something that must be done.

I don't think anyone as of yet has suggested they play together? They do still need time to develop as you won't see any Leeds fans claim they are close to the finished article, far from it. They are however two of the most promising athletic backs we've had in a while, a mixture between players of their build plus the agility of the likes of Tomkins and Charnley is a very dangerous mix. We've lacked 'big' backs for a while now.

That's a good point. I was sceptical at first about Robinson as an international hooker but there's no denying that he was very good in an England shirt and is playing very well for Huddersfield right now.

Also, being a former Wigan player he's likely to have a great game against us on Friday night

Why do you think that Watkins defense is so poor? You've mentioned it a couple of times now.
For Leeds he does a lot of tackling, and doesnt seem to miss that many tackles. He's missed a few games this season, but has made more tackles than Atkins and Goulding, and missed a similar number.

For me, we should be blooding the youngsters. We know what the older guys can do (or not do) and how they have performed in recent years. The Exiles tests should be a chance to blood those youngsters, get them used to the environment and give them the best possible step up.

Totally out of left-field but how about this on form:

Greg Eden
Josh Charnley
Kallum Watkins
Jordan Turner
Luke George

Rangi Chase* - I don't think we saw best of him last season due to Sinfield playing. I'd like to see how he does at side of DB.
Danny Brough

Larne Patrick
Daryl Clark
Andy Lynch
Elliott Whitehead
Tony Clubb
Kevin Brown

Danny Houghton
Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Tom Burgess
Gareth Hock

It's an approach that is just too simplistic in my opinion. We have the England Knights for giving young players a taste of international rugby and finding out which players can make the step up to the full international squad.

You need a degree of consistency with the England side and playing the players who are likely to feature over the next two or three years is the right way to go.

Besides, just because a player is over the age of say 28 doesn't mean they should immediately be overlooked in favour of a young player. The best teams tend to have a good mix of players and you need experience to compliment youth.

The England should be picked on ability and form first and foremost. The age of players involved should be a consideration but not the deciding factor. If there's a player in excellent form who is 33 then there's nothing wrong with picking him so long as there aren't a huge number of ageing players in the side.

The best young players will almost certainly improve by playing in a team that is as strong as possible and well balanced.

While I agree with the main point that the Exiles game should be used for blooding some youngsters it shouldn't be used to just fill the team with young players. Young players need to be given the opportunity where it's deserved but they also need to play alongside the bulk of the players that will form the strongest squad.