I don't see how Hull have one of the best back rows in SL. Ellis and Minichiello are getting on and will be probably winding down this year. Westerman, from what I've seen, has been hit and miss.

Honestly last year Ellis was immense, I think retiring from international rugby did him a world of good and think he will continue his form like Peacock has done, MM was good in the games I saw last year and think he will well in SL. Westerman was excellent last year, our 2nd best player behind Ellis, one good thing Radford has gone is give him a traditional LF role and he really improved last year and looked like the player of his early Cas days.

Hi SLS!

Allow me to tell you a little story.

I was once in a bar where there was this mouthy git. You know the sort; the type of obnoxious know-it-all who thinks normal conversation is all about playing to the gallery and name calling and has no respect for anyone's opinion but his own. Anyway, despite my first impression being that he was a d!ckhead I thought "no, let's not judge a book by it's cover, you never know.." and I went over to talk to him. However, you probably won't be surprised to learn that, even after just a few minutes talking to him, I realised my mistake and he was indeed the d!ckhead he'd first appeared to be. Not surprisingly I stopped talking to him....

Make of that what you will.

we were definitely not woeful last season. only wigan really took us to the cleaners. a lot of games saw us lose narrowly by less than six points or so, a fact shown by the positive points difference we returned despite finishing well outside the 8. turning these narrow defeats into victories will be the key to our season, hence the recruitment of 2 new halves. whether it works or not is a whole new argument.

we also weren't woeful when we played at your place

Tis a shame, it appears you haven't taken your embarrassment from our little tête à tête particularly well.

Take solace from Aristotle - 'the roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet'.

Evening.

Interesting that a few people are ripping Hull to come last.

Since we merged with Gateshead and became Hull FC again we have never ever been bottom of the table. Not even for one week.

Is it any wonder ? The latest deluded fools on your board haven't even figured out that Dan Sarginson didn't play against Mark Percival in the centres at Old Trafford and instead faced up against that renowned threequarter dynamo, Louie Macarthy-Scarsbrook all night once Flower committed his act of violence.

Let's not even discuss how brilliant the latest object of the deluded Wiganers' affections performed against LMS either. His crabbing all night at the Grand Final truly was a sight to behold. Who know, maybe if he learned how to run a centre's line and pass a ball, skills which Percival is already incredibly adept at, he may not result in running sideways when faced with a modicum of decent defence.

Wiganers - ancient and ing clueless since 1872.

I take it you aren't a fan of Wigan ?

St Helens
Wigan
Warrington
Leeds
Catalans
Huddersfield
Salford
Hull
Castleford
Hull KR
Widnes
Wakefield

Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Huddersfield
Catalans
Leeds
Castleford
Wakefield
Salford
Hull
Hull KR
Widnes

St Helens
Wigan
Warrington
Huddersfield
Leeds
Catalans
Hull KR
Salford
Castleford
Wakefield
Hull FC
Widnes

Saints
Wire
Wigan
Catalans
Leeds
Shudds
Cas
Wakefield
Salford
Hull KR
Hull
Widnes

St Helens
Wigan
Warrington
Catalan
Huddersfield
Hull KR
Castleford
Leeds
Hull
Salford
Wakefield
Widnes

Just fyi, we've let both long term assistant coaches go this off season, and have replaced them with Richard Agar....

consistant ?

The deluded fools you refer to are saints fans, they were the ones coming on the wigan board telling everybody that "Percival had Sarginson in his pocket" It doesn't surprise me that your own fans didn't know where he was playing, he made a whopping 26 metres during the game, yes that's right folks, [u26 metres.[/u



As for his "crabbing" he made 191 metres, that doesn't mean sideways metres like you suggest, he moves across defenders looking for gaps, which he found against a team with one more player for 78 mins. Sarge made huge yards in all of the end of season games. His form and quality got him into the England squad, and then the team. You obviously didn't see him play down under or you wouldn't have made such a ludicrous statement like
The tries he set up for Hall in each game were as a result of proper centre play, while Percival watched the match at home. Again who is deluded?

Wigan
St Helens
Warrington
Huddersfield
Catalans
Leeds
Castleford
Hull KR
Salford
Wakefield
Widnes
Hull FC

I can't speak for other Saints fans, although I'm certain 90% of them recognised that Percival didn't end up playing in the centres at Old Trafford. What I can certainly say is that in my considerable time on this planet, I haven't come across too many Wiganers with a clue, demonstrated rather aptly by the short time I've spent posting on a rugby forum on here over the last couple of weeks where I've been told by your own idiotic fans that Walmsley is only the equal of Crosby and Clubb and that Sarginson outplayed Percival at Old Trafford. I could equally state that Soliola outplayed Bowen but then I'd look as totally ing stupid as your average Wigan supporter.

Re metres made by Sarginson. Yes, he made a lot, as do your outside backs in general. It's because of your lack of go forward in the front row. I could point out how Crosby (that prop who is apparently as good as Walmsley

) made less metres at Old Trafford than even Percival, playing on the wing in a side totally unable to move the ball did. How inept does that make Crosby ?!?! How about Clubb being your highest metre making prop with only 60 odd metres ? Hahaha. Alternatively, how about young Luke Thompson, a member of Saints' weak back row according to your totally dip lot, making almost the equal amount of metres as your entire prop grouping did at OT ? Now, that's a real stat !!!!!

Yes, Sarginson made metres. Breaks, well, no, not really, LMS managed to stop the latest saviour from doing that with his incredible lateral defensive abiities (icon_smile.gif). Your front row couldn't match St Helens so you reverted to desperately going wide on almost every tackle to make ground. It becomes easy to defend, hence why in the last two games against Saints, Wigan have struggled chronically to score tries. Why is that ? Because Wigan are one dimensional, despite all the fancy passes and Phil Clarke's orgasmic verbal diarrhoea on all things Greater Manchester.

I give you credit for yet another attempt at engaging with a more knowledgeable fan, however. It's a start !

I guess if people keep predicting Wakey for the bottom spot for enough years it may actually happen, eventually

Except for finishing top and winning the grand final, you mean?

As the saying goes - a (Wild)Cat has 9 lives. Wakey can't have that many left by my recogning.

You need to tell that to the saints fans who made the ridiculous statement in the first place.

I certainly wouldn't agree with people saying Walmsley is only equal to our props. He would improve our front row considerably if he played for us. I do think Clubb and Crosby are about equal to Amor though, as average gain for the season shows.



I thought you said he spent the whole match crabbing, then you admit he made a lot of metres. You've contradicted yourself there i'm afraid! 191 metres, [iis a real stat![/i




I could point out we had 5 forwards to your 6 for 78 minutes. I thought our pack competed magnificently, but we were always going to tire, and that's when Thompson came on and made some good metres and your forwards finally scored a try. Do you not think our back row is better than yours? I think most fans, not just wigans, would say our back row is stronger than yours. By the way, why couldn't you pass the ball to the wing? Surely you have players who can pass the ball!



You only scored 2 tries in 78 minutes against 12 men. If Bowen had made the right decision, we would have scored the same amount of tries as you, despite being outnumbered. We scored the most tries of any team during the season, so we're obviously not that easy to defend against. I notice you refer to the game at the DW, where we were missing key players, but that's only a vaild excuse for your team it seems. You noticeably want to forget the Good Friday game, the one where both teams were as close to full strength, as any of the meetings this season. We scored plenty of tries that day.

Whether you're more knowledgeable, who knows, certainly some of your recent statements would suggest your not as knowledgeable as you would like to think.

Hey Wigan,

You lost. Get over it.

You are joking aren't you, with the possible exception of Burns I think they are all better.

You badly need to replace Hodgson. He has been your best player for a couple of years now. You're other signings are improvements on the whole, but this won't be worth anything if you don't get a decent hooker.

I agree, we haven't as yet but my argument is that our ones coming in are better than those they replace.