Once again Smokey you can't ignore facts!

Like the one that Perpignan has held regular internationals for the past 30 years getting decent crowds like 18,000 in the 60's. Also there is the one that UTC played Wigan in the challenge cup and got 8,000 despite this being at the same time as the local Union team playing.

There was no such form for Bridgend, the opposite if anything like only 3000 for the first match between Wales and Australia since the heroics of the 2000 World Cup.

Rubbish.

Rugby league has been one of the main sports of Perpignan since the 1930s.

It is ingrained in the local culture.

They have had crowds of up to 25,000 for club matches.

The constant belittling of French rugby league and its history on this website is generally very ordinary.

whats banging your head on a brick wall feel like?

explains many of your posts.

so peoples idea of a heartland is an area dominated by RU.

heck london now is a RL heartland too!

id say it was a real heartland from 1933 - 1939.

especially the latter years when a real dominance was emerging.

after that the heart was ripped from the game and the clubs lived a hand to mouth existence with the game basically on life support

if thats your idea of heartland, why not pick anywhere where RL was strong for 6 years and effectively died off after like manchester?

nobody can tell me beforehand they knew LC would work because they were in a heartland area. its a lie

i wasnt 100% confident theyd work out, especially after their poor first season

as is usual with the flatcapper bridage, i remember clearly reading rumours on internet forums of them not paying players on time and a large debt of 3 million pounds being run up.

after their first season they became much more stable as a club

even today the scum USAP still get higher crowds than LC do.

I don't think so.

Dally outed you.

back to the qquestion, what we have learnt is you can't put a top level RL side, needing a 3million quid budget, in an area with few fans and little corporate support, no matter how much you would like to see SL in the area.

The answer to the whole thread is simply put them in the right place.

It wasn't even the right place [iin Wales[/i.

Nor is Wrexham - sure to be known as Wreck-ham.

At the end of our first year we had failed to get a main shirt sponsor, our players were being paid in arrears and we'd come last in the league. If our first year had been in the current financial crisis there's a good possibility we'd have crumpled like the Crusaders have.

yet after this first year many people on here claim they knew it would work out as they are in the "heartlands".

yeah right

Sorry Belgian, just wanted to use this line to settle a different score.

Many are still trying to make out that flatcappers were just as against Catalans as they were about Celtic which is blatantly false. One of the arguments that they have recently used is that we were saying they were in financial trouble at the end of the first year etc. Just thought I'd use you as proof that rather than wanting them to fail they were actually in genuine trouble financially.

There were plenty of threads against Catalans.
More against the Crusaders mind.

Many many more and for different reasons. People thought the Crusaders wouldn't work, some thought that Catalans wouldn't work purely because Paris didn't but this wasn't based on facts. I personally remember arguing that they were based in the heartlands and not Paris. Also there was the principle of a French team in our league, little argument was about Catalans themselves. We still hear this argument now about how a French team should play in their own league but nobody takes it seriously and few did then.

It's just plain wrong to say that the same people who are anti-Crusaders were anti-Catalans. There were many fewer threads and they argued largely about different things, the thread after thread we had about the Crusaders was about how they wouldn't work and we were making a mistake including them for this reason. The odd thread about the Catalans was about the principle of a French club and how they would be exempt from relegation.

I remember an impassioned debate on the old Widnes board at the time. I was in the [i‘It won’t work brigade’[/i, but was shown up for a complete lack of knowledge of the history of French RL by several Widnes fans on there. [i‘Feed The Goat’[/i - do you remember him, Mike? – handed me my on a plate. He said it would work and understood how strongly the people of that area of France identify with RL and regard it as an important part of their history and local culture.

He was clearly correct, and guess what? – I’m made up for them! They have been starved of top class RL for half-a-century and, now they have it, they are turning out in force. I wish them well. So, even on the Widnes board, whose club had been sacrificed in order to allow Les Catalans into SL, there were many fans who knew they would be a success.

Very few, other than the usual suspects, thought the same about Celtic Crusaders. I’m not saying lots of people didn’t welcome them, but few had complete faith in them in the way many did with Les Cats. You are right, Mike. Never doubt it. Some people on here see only what they want to see.

i like reading posts like this.

RL needs more people like you

i can understand people like you being bitter with CC but more credit to you for wishing expansion clubs well.

I'm still not convinced by all these who are saying they knew CC were going to fail.
I remember PLENTY in support, even the phoneins were full of people saying they should be in.

It was a gamble worth taking: I don't care what anyone says

it clearly was

But maybe not at that time. We've no way of reversing the past but all we can say is that a Crusaders included in 2012 might have succeeded and if they had then would 2009 have been a risk worth taking?

There was about a 60/40 split in favour of CC but there were plenty who suggested that they wouldn't work and were too early. It largely centred around lack of support and too much reliance on an unreliable figure both of which came true earlier than anybody expected.

Here's a post from me from April 2008 on why I thought they would fail,

And it was easy to see the split in opinion on it

SL clubs fans who had not visited or played Celtic said " Stick them in "

NL clubs fans who had been down to Bridgend and seen the set up said " wont work , not enough interest , locals intensly dislike the owner , been cheated through the NL's "

So wether it was worth it we still dont know for sure , hopefully it will

in the future the RFL should send you guys first into any proposed expansion club's set up.

a bit like the commandos to check out stuff for the rest of us

i can just hear richard lewis now when Stade Francaise apply for a SL team, "send in the leigh fans first ...!"

If we are talking ' expenses ' then no problem from me

one way tickets only.

They need some decent players then , as long as the moneys as good as that paid in Bridgend in the NL's , no problem