You can't really be that stupid can you









Is this "top prop" (does he not have a name?!) an interchange prop...clearly not. How many games and minutes are we comparing the players over?

JP is Leeds main man in terms of carries - that's not and never has been Bailey's role in Leeds' side.



So where was he when he made his 1027 carries - on the wing? [uAll [/uSL props have to mix it with the big boys one on one.



One of the worst off loads in the game? What are you basing that on - you've shown he offloads less than the top prop that's far from the same thing



Don't worry Leeds have had no problem scoring trys in the last 4 years





That's upto McManara - over the last 4 years no he's not been an international prop. This year his form is much improved



Obviously he will if picked - it's his job. Do you really believe that he'd have played in 5 GF by avoiding other teams props





Doesn't change my point at all - and FFS just use his name.

you disgrace the name of Omar with you one eyed assessment of baileys credibility.

<whistles>

Actually there is no need to compare Bailey to a composite top prop, real life examples indicate how far down the rankings he is. Its not just that his stats are markedly inferior to those who haven't been selected like Lynch, Mossop, Griffin and Coley amongst others but they are very comparable with Ewan Dowes who has just been released by Hull and is nobody's idea of current England player. Of course it is to Dowes discredit that he isn't a windy cheap shot merchant so he remains the largely anonymous player that he is.

Bailey shouldn't be anywhere near the England side on playing talent considerations, that is without taking into account that he is a low down grub of a person. Yes he has some value to Leeds, mainly because they have to operate under a salary cap and he'll come cheap. Plus they have Peacock and Leuleuai to do the hard yards and take the ball in first up - not something you see Bailey do very often at all. England have no salary cap restrictions and absolutely no need for this very average thug.

The thing is, I like a bit of Biff but the fact that Bailey tends to avoid kicking off he doesn't has nothing to do with him being a coward or whatever the keyboard warriors on here think.

He gets under players skins with his niggle but when it does kick off he knows he has a reputation and therefore he just stands aside and makes sure he's not the one who's going to get penalised or sent off (watch how often he's grinning at this point as he knows he's won a penalty). No doubt this is [uexactly[/u what his coaches have told him to do and frankly it's better for Leeds that he does so I won't complain (you see that's the thing about this Leeds team - the team [ualways[/u comes first)

Do we need to challenge him? has he ever claimed he's the best prop in the league or the hardest, fastest, strongest?
No, he just gets on with his game quietly winning 5 SL medals, a WCC medal, 2 league leaders medals and now a well earned international call up in the process.

You do realise that all this TMFMISL started as a joke on Southstander don't you? ****wits like yourself totally fell for it and now dig yourselves deeper every single day by posting pages of drivel about him.

I'm sure TMFMISL finds it all hilarious, i know i do.

Classic Bailey.

I note how your opinion is based entirely on your prejudices and Baileys reputation rather than on his form or playing ability.

The cap doesn't even come into it. Dowes, Mossop and Coley are all decidedly average and personally I'd not want any of them at Leeds. I'll let you know how Griffin and Bailey compare next year (but I'd not put money on Bailey not being in Leeds first choice 17 next year even with our excess of props).

Lynch I think is unlucky to have missed out but I suspect Bailey was picked ahead of him to give some variety in the props in the squad. I'd also add that any Leeds fan will tell you that Bailey's form over the last few months has been the best in years (he's vastly improved going forward whilst remaining one of the best defensive props in the league) so can we blame McNamara for picking an inform player.

Don't tell them that - they think it's us arrogant whino fans bigging him up

I was referring to playing stats; do the player comparisons on the Super League site. Bailey's are massively inferior - or are they prejudiced.



Mossop and Coley may be "decidedly average" in your opinion but their stats are vastly superior to Bailey's - what does that make Bailey? Dowes was selected because he is what people think of as "decidedly average" and his stats are very similar to Baileys, minus the penalties of course.



The only variety Bailey brings compared to the other props in the squad is that they are talented players and he isn't. I will grant that Bailey has been in his best form recently, the only problem is that it is still way short of international standard.

I'm outraged that nobody has asked Tony Smith, Brian Mclennan, Brian McDermott why they kept picking him for Leeds, or Noble previously for GB. Nobody has answered how this cowardly, ineffective, non-yard-making, non-offloading lion has managed 250 appearances for Leeds under a range of coaches, or international selection now under two coaches, if he is so poor.

Seriously, as far as I'm aware, nobody is suggesting Bailey is as good as Peacock, Morley or Graham. I don't think anybody is suggesting he should be in the first-choice 17. But as a bench prop, perhaps 5th choice? Starting from the bench is very different from being the Peacock/Graham starting prop. The whole role is based around being solid whilst your main men take a breather.

Sorry but given the performances of the likes of Hull, Huddersfield and even Wigan in the last few weeks of the season (i.e. when it really counts), its hard to argue with his selection in that role if you're going to pick players on form.

BTW, anybody who picks a team based on stats alone is an idiot (particularly an issue for props' yardage which should exclude kick-off returns if you want to levelise numbers, and should be based on minutes played as well if you really want like-forlike comparisons).

Exactly, which raises the question why he is classed as an international. For me a Prop makes hard yards, big hits, off loads in 2-3 men tackles, carries the ball up in heavy traffic, Bailey does none of these. The form he has is getting under the skin of the opposition, then hides away when the going gets rough, with the exception of the smaller players.
Peacock, Morley, Graham, Carvell, Wood, Huby, Lynch, Coley are no nonsense props, it's difficult to place Bailey in the top 10, His selection must be on the basis that he is on form as a wind up merchant, which raises the question - is he really a Rugby Player, take away his niggly game........ He is NOTHING.

Can't say I'm a fan of either player tbh and neither would be in my England 17.

Even if Bailey did what is alleged then why did Wilkin see fit to run to the media?

Bailey has got to be the worst player with the most winners medals ever.

Actually, I think quite the reverse... take away his niggly game and you could have a good prop

He is big enough and mobile enough. In the last few months of the season he hit some decent form, beating more men than before and came up with some quality offloads too

I don’t like the guy one bit but he actually isn’t a bad player

Your still bitter from when TMFMISL sat Mozza down at HQ a couple of years back.
Mozza, along with several others, is still having great difficulty in seeking revenge.
Classic Bailey.

I'm a firm believer that what happens between the players on the pitch should stay on the pitch. Wilkin has a history of running to the press, he really is a snivelling little turd.

I don't know why people/players spend so much time moaning about him - he's an utter pr*ck, end of. He's not the first RL player to be so, nor will he be the last. He won't change so why worry about it - a roll of the eyes should suffice.

In an England shirt he'll have my support like the rest of them, I just hope he will be in a mood to dig in against the Aus/NZ pack as, although he has been in good form, there is little in his game that suggests to me he'll be anything other than ineffective.

To this point in his career he's not been good enough. He hasn't contributed anything of note to any of Leeds' success.

He does have the physical attributes to be a great player though. But I've never seen him really get stuck in, you just don't notice him at all unless he starts the niggling.

I agree he hasn’t shown great form for much of his career - it is really just the back end of this season that he has started leaving opposition players on the floor when he runs... maybe the much maligned Brian McDermott actually got in his ear and turned him into a better prop this year

I don’t think he will make the England 17 – we will see a rotation of Morley, Peacock, Graham and Carvell in the props

Nobody is suggesting he is outright poor except in terms of his character. As a player he is merely cheap, average and way short of international class. As for Noble selecting him for GB, didn't he also select Karl Pratt?



I very much doubt the Aus and NZ selection will be based on a "solid" 5th prop, they will be looking for the best available. You are using "solid" as a euphemism for unable to make as many yards, tackles, offloads, genuine big hits as a more talented contemporary. The best prop replacing James Graham would be a clone of him, failing that the next best available - not a highly average "solid" player.



You are using team performance to judge individual players - just because Bailey was able to ride on the coat tails of others doesn't mean his own performance was that good. He was after all playing behind a prop who will be nowhere near the NZ team (though I must add is a far better player than Bailey).




I agree that statistics are far from the be all and end all of everything and that they can be cherry picked and manipulated. They do however provide some recorded information rather than the unsupported irrational drivel you spout.

However when you look at Baileys stats, those of the acknowledged top props in the game, and those of average journeymen it is crystal clear which group Bailey belongs in, he is not even close to the best across a wide range of categories.

And as you bring up kick off returns as distorting the stats, perhaps they do and I can't recall Bailey making many. Then again carting the ball back at speed into what is likely to be a 2-3 man tackle with a least one of them lined up for a big hit requires a large helping of courage and toughness.

Clearly, hence the reason so many successful coaches have continued to select him for Leeds week in, week out when fit.

If you're using "ineffective at international level" as a criteria for leaving people out, there won't be an England side to take the field in this Four Nations as none of the squad have exactly covered themselves in glory.

At least he's not an "utter pr*ck" who goes running to the media creating negative publicity for the sport every time he gets his backside handed to him in a big game eh?

You seem particularly defensive of him? Are you his Mum?

The only reason he's been picked consistently is because he is very cheap. I'd be amazed if he's paid a quarter of what the rest of the GB props are being paid.

Bailey costs half of what the other England props are on and does quite an affective job at Leeds,

Not hard to work out whos on a winner is it?

He get's picked because of the specific role he offers in leeds team. He's a luxury they can afford to have.

Let's not pretend he's an awesome prop, but he get's under the oppositions skin and has a habit of making players concede penalties after they've tackled him.

If he can replicate that type of thing against australia, maybe, just maybe general opinion may shift and he may not be such an orrible ***T.

Whilst I don't agree with everything Wilkin says, he is an articulate and thoughtful commentator on the game - not something you could ever accuse Bailey of.

And if Bailey hadn't acted like a complete and utter one then there would have been no "negative publicity" for Wilkin to create. Shoot the messenger is the solution then?

Nobody is disputing that, the problem is that being cheap and doing "quite an affective job" is not a compelling argument for England selection.