I know mate, and I know ppl are ed(and rightly so) but that doesnt explain not selling out Elland Road for last yrs final or the poor 44k for the Wembley dbl header...and thats without checking out attendance from 2009 etc.

We want International competition goes the cry, but we then find all sorts of excuses to not support it...If it doesnt mean anything the fans, why should the multi nationals care enough to invest in the sport?

Agree 100% jd.....RL need to up its game on the exposure and Marketing fronts.....the RLWC 2013 could go either way as it stands....there are 2 double headers planned.....both should look to be sell outs....anything less than a Full Wembley for the double header semis will be a disgrace.....chances are that same weekend, the other lot will be playing to a packed Twickenham crowd.

No, what JB said earlier was that RL doesn't need an international game.
RL fans prefer to support their club sides because at the moment they play in a better structured and organised competition with more exposure.


For some reason you seem to be assuming that I don't go to internationals? I went to all the England games last year, mate. But your typical RL fan doesn't have the same attachment to the game as me and it would be foolish to schedule games in such a way given our small amount if support in this country.

End of season internationals are at the end of the season. Well done. What day? What time? Where? You do realise the longer you leave these things, the more chance your average person is going to have made other plans (or been dragged by his missus to some do)? People aren't just going to leave their weekends free. Schedules need announcing early, tickets released earlier and marketing done in advance.

The RL public are apathetic, but that's for a reason, and if the folk at the RLIF (and ARL/RFL) keep scheduling games because of this apathy instead of addressing the reasons for this apathy, the international game won't grow. They've made a good start with the RLWC, but in doing so have completely left out this year's series.


I believe that when you invest £29m of Sport England money into developing grassroots sport, it kind of makes an increase in participation believable. But you be a cynic if you like, and you talk down the game based on no evidence whatsoever. That's a great argument you've got there.


Not *just* the Aussies, but I agree in the point (as mentioned earlier).


It's up to the marketers of the game to come up with campaigns, not the fans. RL is a business, not a charity. Businesses have a loyal base of customers. So does RL. But you cannot rely solely on those customers. You need to be making new ones all the time, and that is up to the business.

RL will not survive in word-of-mouth marketing.

Had to happen eventually




Bit unfair to hand out the failure stickers just yet gf, tho I’d def agree attendance at the Millennium Stad dbl header on the 26th October 2013 will prolly decide how the rest of the comp is perceived by the wider media...Its up to the fans...the dates and venues have been announced and ticks go on sale a full yr out from the start of the comp...If the fans really want a successful International comp, this is where it starts!




and you were going so well...

BAck to the OP,

There is no reason a long term plan could not see RL nines played at the Olympics (I know we don't do long term in RL but still).

First step is to get it in the C'wealth games. To do that we need:
regular club IX's in held in C'wealth different countries (good to see SL starting the ball rolling with this years nines tournament)
a pre season world IX's held in Australia in Jan/Feb

there should be no reason then why it isn't seen as a legitimate variation of RL and held as part of the games. Here are the C'wealth countries where RL is played and could put out Int teams:

Australia
Canada
Jamaica
NZ
PNG
Samoa
South Africa
Tonga
GB
Malta

A 10 team comp should be more than enough to get it started,
On top the game is just starting up in these countries and a C'wealth Nines would be a great vehicle to further the game for them
Singapore
Solomon Islands
Pakistan
Ghana

Assumptions based on your replies and I apologise If I misinterpreted them.

The bolded part of your post is interesting....If typical fans have no attachment to Internationals then perhaps, as I believe JB was suggesting, the time has come to rethink?


Excuses, excuses...which fail to hide the fact that the end of season Internationals have, since 2004, been played on roughly the same dates every other year (WC yrs excepted).


Again Wellsy, knowing the SH based RLif is madder than a bag of ferrets, does not stop ppl from attending and supporting Internationals played in [ithis [/iCountry...you want to send a msg to love and his crew? Pack the bigger UK stadia out and create interest....they will follow the dollars and media lights.


Not an argument, just an...observation. Sport England invested far more £’s in grassroots union...How did their participation rates trend? Tho, admittedly union has a very long history of falsifying numbers.

Are the Sport England figures still based on a telephone survey every six months? This was discussed on another forum and (going from memory) the consensus was the methodology was somewhat....flawed


New customers to increase your ‘loyal’ fan base across two hemispheres who prefer the club game to Internationals..


Its the year 2012...with one click of a mouse in his poster strewn basement gf can hit up ‘000s of =#FFFFFFunsuspecting marks potential future consumers...I’m not suggesting replacing the more traditional marketing and ad campaigns btw, but to suggest that existing fans have no part to play is, to me anyway, a bit daft.
From the Arctic Monkeys to Joseph(no relation) Kony, grassroots social media can and does influence behaviour...Compare the constant negativity of this thread with the similar Rugby League and the olympics thread on planet puntmunkey...its kinda hard to tell the difference.

GB don't play in the Commonwealth games. It would be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. There's three more nations for you right there.

The bolded part would be more interesting if you read it correctly. I never said "no attachment", I said "not the same attachment".
The same attachment isn't there because of the poor organisation and structure of international RL. People are not going to readily invest their emotion behind something if they do not know what's happening year on year. International RL lacks credibility.


Roughly the same date isn't enough. People need to know the exact dates! It's p*ss poor organisation to not have released the KO times of an international tournament when it starts in 2 months! This is why people don't buy into it, and why people don't waste their time.


You won't pack out stadia if the competition is lacking credibility. The responsibility starts at the top. You don't produce cr*p and then blame the customer for not buying it. You blame the producer!


Union has always had a lot of money invested by Sport England. League just got a HUGE increase. That's where the significant difference come in.
On top of which, I'm more concerned with the numbers playing in the SL. Are there or are there not more English players in the SL now than there were 10 years ago?


They prefer it for a reason. The reason is more subliminal than they will realise.


It is daft. That's why I never said it.
I said you can't rely solely on it. Not in sport. And not top level international sport.

JB, forget about olympic recognition, it won't happen while rogge is there.

If Rugby League wants in the Commonwealth Games, then it needs to work on getting RL nines played in the requisite (35 of 71 according to the unionites) number of Commonwealth Countries to allow optional status to be granted..12 or 13 countries just wont be enough for anything other than Exhibition/ Recognised status mate.

The creation of a fully sponsored World Nines series should be on the list...but it needs to be more than a pre season party...

Don't understand why you need 31 countries when you would probably only invite 10-15 teams to compete in the games. For example hockey is a c'wealth game yet only ten teams compete in the games.

Actually just looked at the cgf constitution for sports inclusion and there is no specific number of countries needed to be accepted as a core or optional sport. Marketability, performance and participation are key factors. I suspect the union old boys network is a far stronger reason they are a core sport than any notion of participation levels. Page 31: www.thecgf.com/about/constitution.pdf

Actually just looked at the cgf constitution for sports inclusion and there is no specific number of countries needed to be accepted as a core or optional sport. Marketability, performance and participation are key factors. I suspect the union old boys network is a far stronger reason they are a core sport than any notion of participation levels. Page 31: www.thecgf.com/about/constitution.pdf

Its to do with the status the CG awards to sports...Theres three Catogories, Recognised, Optional and Core. As far as I can see, each 'edition' of the CG has the 10 Core Sports and 7 (from 15) optional Sports....If the game is serious about being included on a semi regular basis, then changing RL9's status from Recognised to Optional is the next step.

And to do that, 9's would need to be played in 31 CG Countries...is how I'm reading it. Tho have to 'fess up and admitt I'm going off a combination of a union forum and wiki...

Why would 9's be considered for the Olympics? It's hardly played apart from the second string tournament in the UK. It doesnt compares with 7's in terms of its global reach and number of tournaments.

There is no specific number of countries in the eligibility criteria for a sport to be included.

It wouldn't and shouldn't now but there is no reason that we could not have a long term plan to get it in. The benefits would be massive and nines is actually a good development opportunity for the code.

How exciting would this backline be to watch?

Fiji
1 Hayne
2 Keven Naiqama
3. Wes Naiqama
4. Koroibete
5. Uate

Hey I believe ya JB , tho ya can normally rely on the unionites being anal enough to know rules and regs stuff backwards

.

The only thing I'd point out is Reg6, para1 of the CGF pdf:

Get a *Commonwealth/ World 9's series up and running leading into the (possible) inclusion as an exhibition sport at Gold Coast 2018.

The idea would be to have qualifiers, not just invite teams.

The world nines held in feb each year would act as the qualifier

Biggest issue would be the fact the cg are held late july and I can't see the clubs being willing to close down the domestic season for two weeks.

I'm sure the World 9s would act as a good qualifier, but there needs to be enough countries participating first. There may not be a specific figure, but 10-15 I doubt will be anywhere near.

However, we also need to bear in mind that there are "countries" in the Commonwealth like Gibraltar, Jersey, etc. that would be fairly easy to get something going at in terms of teams.

In terms of releasing players, it's only 9 a side. Shouldn't be too difficult to get teams to release one or two players surely?

You would hope to see the best RL players with the big profiles at the games though and I can't see SL and NRL clubs being happy to let them go for two weeks. Otherwise it would just be reserve graders and not sur ethat will really have the attraction or profile we are looking for. One possibility would be to schedule SOO at the same time as stand alone weekends so that at least the majority of NRL players would be available. Seems the RLIF is def targetting the C'wealth games with development focus on Africa Quote Ghana is the first of a series of countries that is being targeted in the region, with Togo, Nigeria and Sierra Leone also on the long-term agenda. The initiative meets RLIF objectives within the context of the Commonwealth Games Federation, which recognised the sport in 2011, to develop the sport in Commonwealth regions with sp rugby league activity, especially Africa and the Caribbean. '" www.rleague.com/content/article.php?id=42495

You would hope to see the best RL players with the big profiles at the games though and I can't see SL and NRL clubs being happy to let them go for two weeks. Otherwise it would just be reserve graders and not sur ethat will really have the attraction or profile we are looking for. One possibility would be to schedule SOO at the same time as stand alone weekends so that at least the majority of NRL players would be available. Seems the RLIF is def targetting the C'wealth games with development focus on Africa Quote Ghana is the first of a series of countries that is being targeted in the region, with Togo, Nigeria and Sierra Leone also on the long-term agenda. The initiative meets RLIF objectives within the context of the Commonwealth Games Federation, which recognised the sport in 2011, to develop the sport in Commonwealth regions with sp rugby league activity, especially Africa and the Caribbean. '" www.rleague.com/content/article.php?id=42495

Not always, GC2018 will be held over the 4 - 15th of April for example, but your point about player release is still a good one. Anyone know how union solved this issue?

If the sport is actually serious about anything other than Exhibition status at GC2018, the biggest issue is the need to increase the number of RLif affiliated Commonwealth Nations and have actual 9's Comps up and running in those Nations.


Good stuff, the RLEF also helping to encourage sport in the Caribbean Countries:

[urlhttp://www.rlef.eu.com/news/article/503/rlef-announces-new-chairman[/url

Union has specialist 7's squads with a lot of "younger" players ......I believe that the "clubs" of these players are paid by each country's Union. League could do something similar with U20's/Reserve graders, but again, the clubs would need to be compensated and the players wages met by each country's governing body.

Would be a shame if it became a reserve grade comp like Union is. People want to see the likes of Slater, Hayne, ingles and Tomkins, not some unheard of kid who happens to be fast.

Pre season world and club nines would be fine but not sure how you get star players to the c'wealth and eventually Olympic games. Maybe each club has to release one player for it.

In terms of it being played more, there are actually a number of nines comps already around the world inc uk and oz that are international and club mixed comps.

Cheers gf...I know 7's now recieves funding via the ioc, but I'd hazard a guess that union7's was previously funded (in part) via their International game.


Aye, thats what I was thinking (tho not sure I like this being in agreement thing lol)...U20’s/ fringe players providing the base with 1st grade players from RSL/ NRL/Championship/ LER providing the sparkle....

Would exempting ALL players who make themselves available for a International 9’s series from the Salary Cap calculations be enough of a carrot for the clubs(+match payments to players obviously)...? Maybe add a stipulation that no 1st grade player will be selected more than 4 times but be required to attend 9’s training sessions press days etc?
Taking them off the S.C may also allow clubs to retain more of those U20’s/ Reserve graders and give another pathway for player development.

This is what I’m thinking(and remember, just throwing ideas about here - Ima not claiming this to be a cunning plan which the Rlif should implement tomorrow)
Create a seven rnd elite International 9’s series to be played alongside a 2nd tier 9’s National/ Invitational comp in the Host Nation...maybe play 5 in Commonwealth Countries and 2 in non Commonwealth/ Countries; E.g:
Rnd 1: Aus.
Rnd2: NZ
Rnd3: South Africa.
Rnd4: Canada
Rnd5: Czech Republic (mainly ‘cos I like the idea of watching *the Mad Squirrels play, but also to highlight the pettiness of the CZ unionites insisting that Rugby League be referred to as Rebel Rugby.)
Rnd6: France.
Rnd7: England.

Played Feb to August, with the option to move rnds 3 – 6 to diff countries each yr. Helps hit most of both RLs and Commonwealths development objectives I reckon, tho it would miss out two of the **6 Commonwealth zones...might have to swap teh Mad Squirrels for a wkend in Jamaica...life is hard, ay

.
The English leg [icould[/i be played over the CC weekend, which would give us: Friday London Lights, Sat CC Final, Sun-Mon World 9’s, SL 9’s finals and the London Rugby League Boris Johnson 9's



Meanwhile, back in the real world, finding the funding and media partners for something like this would prolly be too much of a ‘challenge’@ the mo...ppl really need to stop with the BS excuses and start attending and supporting the International game.

**D'oh!, any fule kno there are six Commonwealth zones.Sorry.