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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"If you've got to play kids to survive financially, that's what you do. If you can't afford the team you have, therein lies the problem. London have done it. Wakefield have done it.
What you mean is how can we make further cutbacks without harming the team we put out on the park. Unfortunately, that's what every other club has to do.'"
Genuine question, if wakefield had half their sky money paid to the other clubs, do you think even with MC they wouldn't also be in admin?
I'm not blaming the RFL, like I've said previous manegment have mismanaged the club disgustingly.
But I still feel the decision to cut half the funding was an awful decision and it handicapped the club. Cuts were being made, but then the argument of the sale of the club arose and everything's has being horribly managed. |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"We've been calling for years for the rfl to have a backbone. Over the last couple of months that's precisely what we've got.'"
I (begrudgingly) agree.
The statement from the RFL pulls no punches.
Quote “In the last six months two other clubs have had to restructure their businesses, introduce new investment from owners and release players to avoid administration. For Bradford to effectively drop off debt as a result of the administration without a points deduction would have significantly impaired the integrity of the competition.'"
No doubt, once they grow a set and reappear on here, Adeybull et al will try to shoot holes in the above FACTUAL statement, ignoring the constant stream of assistance their club has received over the last few years. |
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Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Moore and co have never had the pleasure of an rfl fit and proper persons test. I wonder if this had got further how they would of fared...
What damages the sport is the unnecessary sniping after people dont get their way. Lenaghan, now Moore, what are the rfl going to do? Ignore the majority and the rules?
We've been calling for years for the rfl to have a backbone. Over the last couple of months that's precisely what we've got.'"
The RFL did do a fit and proper persons test, they did numerous, ryan whitcut failed back in November, Richard lamb already had one despite never purchasing the club.
A bit more info on the players which confirms they work for the newco, so I can't see how they can play at the weekend for the oldco
"Most pertinently, Hunter-Paul highlights the risk any prospective new owner would run of losing further players from a squad already light in numbers and facing a potential points deduction for breaking insolvency rules.
They saw Craig Kopczak walk out on his contract in 2012 when they were taken over by new owners after their last spell in administration and Garreth Carvell has done so this time around, to join Hull FC.
A player is legally within his rights to do so – under the Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment Regulation (TUPE) – if he gives notice on the day of the change of ownership.
But any prospective buyer would be purchasing OK Bulls Ltd – not Bradford Bulls 2014 Ltd – from the administrator, so opening up another chance for other players to follow Carvell’s lead in that 24-hour slot.
Hunter-Paul, who won every honour in the game during his 12 years as a player at Bradford, admitted: “They would have to go through the TUPE process once again and that’s the risk another business will take on if it came in and acquired the club."
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/ru ... -1-6450687 |
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Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Moore and co have never had the pleasure of an rfl fit and proper persons test. I wonder if this had got further how they would of fared...
What damages the sport is the unnecessary sniping after people dont get their way. Lenaghan, now Moore, what are the rfl going to do? Ignore the majority and the rules?
We've been calling for years for the rfl to have a backbone. Over the last couple of months that's precisely what we've got.'"
The RFL did do a fit and proper persons test, they did numerous, ryan whitcut failed back in November, Richard lamb already had one despite never purchasing the club.
A bit more info on the players which confirms they work for the newco, so I can't see how they can play at the weekend for the oldco
"Most pertinently, Hunter-Paul highlights the risk any prospective new owner would run of losing further players from a squad already light in numbers and facing a potential points deduction for breaking insolvency rules.
They saw Craig Kopczak walk out on his contract in 2012 when they were taken over by new owners after their last spell in administration and Garreth Carvell has done so this time around, to join Hull FC.
A player is legally within his rights to do so – under the Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment Regulation (TUPE) – if he gives notice on the day of the change of ownership.
But any prospective buyer would be purchasing OK Bulls Ltd – not Bradford Bulls 2014 Ltd – from the administrator, so opening up another chance for other players to follow Carvell’s lead in that 24-hour slot.
Hunter-Paul, who won every honour in the game during his 12 years as a player at Bradford, admitted: “They would have to go through the TUPE process once again and that’s the risk another business will take on if it came in and acquired the club."
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/ru ... -1-6450687 | |
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They did it originally when whitcut failed his. |
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They did it originally when whitcut failed his. | |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"The RFL did aswell'"
No, the consortium had their takeover accepted by the administrator & awaited ratification from the RFL. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"They did it originally when whitcut failed his.'"
But if ratification was already done why would they only be "confident" 4 days ago?
This deal obviously hadn't run it's full course - so the rfl hadn't agreed to it yet, else the bb2014 would if had the sl licence and there would be no issues with who owns what currently (as adeybull pointed out in your board) - just that the new co didn't have an owner.
As it happens (to the best of my knowledge) the assets of ok bulls had been passed over, but the rfl status hadn't before this happened (I'd imagine acceptance of the punishment was one of the reasons why ratification wasn't completed) so that is still with ok bulls (and still in admin) making this whole mess messier, and now spread across 2 company's instead of 1 |
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Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"No, the consortium had their takeover accepted by the administrator & awaited ratification from the RFL.'"
They were directors twice, they even resigned as a director and came back.
You needed to pass the fpp test to have your bid considered by the administrator
“There has also been a lot of questions asked regarding the administration process and the potential of new buyers coming in and purchasing the Bradford Bulls. As is currently understood, the administrator David Wilson directed all interested parties towards the governing body to first pass a fit and proper persons test. Adding to this, Mr Wilson has also confirmed that he would only speak to those parties that could show proof of funds as part of the process of making a formal offer. As yet, the administrator has not had any offer from any interested party other than the current board."
www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/art ... s-position |
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Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"No, the consortium had their takeover accepted by the administrator & awaited ratification from the RFL.'"
They were directors twice, they even resigned as a director and came back.
You needed to pass the fpp test to have your bid considered by the administrator
“There has also been a lot of questions asked regarding the administration process and the potential of new buyers coming in and purchasing the Bradford Bulls. As is currently understood, the administrator David Wilson directed all interested parties towards the governing body to first pass a fit and proper persons test. Adding to this, Mr Wilson has also confirmed that he would only speak to those parties that could show proof of funds as part of the process of making a formal offer. As yet, the administrator has not had any offer from any interested party other than the current board."
www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/art ... s-position | |
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Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Moore and co have never had the pleasure of an rfl fit and proper persons test. I wonder if this had got further how they would of fared...'"
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... st/?ref=rc
One assumes they didn't start with Whitcu*t and then just stop. Or that the administrator would refuse to speak to Lamb before he had passed the test but any such need would be ignored for Moore, etc. |
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Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Moore and co have never had the pleasure of an rfl fit and proper persons test. I wonder if this had got further how they would of fared...'"
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/n ... st/?ref=rc
One assumes they didn't start with Whitcu*t and then just stop. Or that the administrator would refuse to speak to Lamb before he had passed the test but any such need would be ignored for Moore, etc. | |
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| Quote ="vbfg"www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10804044.Bradford_Bulls_co_owner_quits_after_failing__fit_and_proper_persons__test/?ref=rc
One assumes they didn't start with Whitcu*t and then just stop. Or that the administrator would refuse to speak to Lamb before he had passed the test but any such need would be ignored for Moore, etc.'"
They may of passed individually as directors, but the consortium (and thus the group together) hasn't been ratified - it may well of been a formality - but never officially done (and I've thus far not seen anything to suggest otherwise) - this is why there were "confident of ratification" not ratified as far as I've seen. |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"They were directors twice, they even resigned as a director and came back.
You needed to pass the fpp test to have your bid considered by the administrator
“There has also been a lot of questions asked regarding the administration process and the potential of new buyers coming in and purchasing the Bradford Bulls. As is currently understood, the administrator David Wilson directed all interested parties towards the governing body to first pass a fit and proper persons test. Adding to this, Mr Wilson has also confirmed that he would only speak to those parties that could show proof of funds as part of the process of making a formal offer. As yet, the administrator has not had any offer from any interested party other than the current board."
www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/art ... s-position'"
Maybe they did pass the RFL “Fit & Proper” persons test, but the “Proof of Funds” bit is from the administrator, not the RFL. |
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Quote ="SmokeyTA"They were directors twice, they even resigned as a director and came back.
You needed to pass the fpp test to have your bid considered by the administrator
“There has also been a lot of questions asked regarding the administration process and the potential of new buyers coming in and purchasing the Bradford Bulls. As is currently understood, the administrator David Wilson directed all interested parties towards the governing body to first pass a fit and proper persons test. Adding to this, Mr Wilson has also confirmed that he would only speak to those parties that could show proof of funds as part of the process of making a formal offer. As yet, the administrator has not had any offer from any interested party other than the current board."
www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/art ... s-position'"
Maybe they did pass the RFL “Fit & Proper” persons test, but the “Proof of Funds” bit is from the administrator, not the RFL. | |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"They may of passed individually as directors, but the consortium (and thus the group together) hasn't been ratified - it may well of been a formality - but never officially done (and I've thus far not seen anything to suggest otherwise) - this is why there were "confident of ratification" not ratified as far as I've seen.'"
The ratification of the transfer of the share was delayed by 28 days while the administrator looked for other buyers. That's why they were wating on ratification. The fpp test was done before the bid was considered.
Also the test is a fit and proper persons test, whatever the formation of it the consortium is still made up of the same people |
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"Maybe they did pass the RFL “Fit & Proper” persons test, but the “Proof of Funds” bit is from the administrator, not the RFL.'"
Yeah, the administrator insisted on proof of funds and the RFL did the fpp test |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"The ratification of the transfer of the share was delayed by 28 days while the administrator looked for other buyers. That's why they were wating on ratification. The fpp test was done before the bid was considered.
Also the test is a fit and proper persons test, whatever the formation of it the consortium is still made up of the same people'"
As I said, formality.
So were agreed then the rfl hadn't ratified the deal? I can't remember why we were discussing this, but I'm fairly certain that was what I was hoping to prove!  |
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| Quote ="Bull Mania"But the RFL have some questions to answer. Like if we asked for an advance of £500k then why did they ratify the ownership.'"
This is why! Cool, that's that one solved, they didn't |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"They may of passed individually as directors, but the consortium (and thus the group together) hasn't been ratified - it may well of been a formality - but never officially done (and I've thus far not seen anything to suggest otherwise) - this is why there were "confident of ratification" not ratified as far as I've seen.'"
That does seem to be true. It had to be done once when they took over as the board but prior to ownership being sorted out but I can't find anything since. |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"As I said, formality.
So were agreed then the rfl hadn't ratified the deal? I can't remember why we were discussing this, but I'm fairly certain that was what I was hoping to prove!
'"
It was a provision of the administrator not RFL.
I think this started because you were saying that it may not have got this far if the RFL had done the fpp test earliest, this isn't true tho the RFL allowed it to get this far and passed these people that they apparently have no confidence in. |
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So did the consortium have any real financial clout?
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It was a provision of the administrator not RFL.
I think this started because you were saying that it may not have got this far if the RFL had done the fpp test earliest, this isn't true tho the RFL allowed it to get this far and passed these people that they apparently have no confidence in.'"
True, I admit I got mixed up between fpp test and ratification of the deal - I apologise for any inconvenience.
So what we're saying is the rfl confirmed the people involved without knowing their plan on how they will buy the company (which would presumably only be known after they made an offer to the administrators) - because being investors, and buying outright are very different things.
Had we got to the stage of ratification of the deal, I wonder how it would of gone ...
But the point remains, can't blame the rfl for ratifying this none existent deal, cos they didn't |
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"So did the consortium have any real financial clout?'"
Depends, don't suppose well ever find out now. They were planning on buying the company using the clubs money (like glazers did at man utd) - so none of their money would of (initially) been involved - maybe a Bradford fan can say whether they actually put any money in? |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It was a provision of the administrator not RFL.
I think this started because you were saying that it may not have got this far if the RFL had done the fpp test earliest, this isn't true tho the RFL allowed it to get this far and passed these people that they apparently have no confidence in.'"
Surely it’s one thing being a fit & proper person and entirely another providing proof of funds.
Maybe the administrator was happy, maybe he didn’t care that much as long as he got his fee, however, it’s blatantly obvious the RFL weren’t happy with the Newco’s financial projections. |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"Depends, don't suppose well ever find out now. They were planning on buying the company using the clubs money (like glazers did at man utd) - so none of their money would of (initially) been involved - maybe a Bradford fan can say whether they actually put any money in?'"
Thats all well and good when the club is worth a billion pounds, not so good when its worth 50p |
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"Thats all well and good when the club is worth a billion pounds, not so good when its worth 50p'"
Who can say if it would of worked? Given (from what I've read) they weren't willing to honour the debts the club had to ok - maybe it would of left the club with less debt than before they began - it might of burdened them beyond salvation, will be one of life's many unanswered questions (unless this is lambs plan too ... Which you have to worry about, because this was the preferred option to whatever mr lamb said!) |
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| Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"True, I admit I got mixed up between fpp test and ratification of the deal - I apologise for any inconvenience.
So what we're saying is the rfl confirmed the people involved without knowing their plan on how they will buy the company (which would presumably only be known after they made an offer to the administrators) - because being investors, and buying outright are very different things.
Had we got to the stage of ratification of the deal, I wonder how it would of gone ...
But the point remains, can't blame the rfl for ratifying this none existent deal, cos they didn't
'"
It's worse than that if you believe the RFL, they allowed a club to start the season without any confidence they could complete it, and, on acceptance of the points deduction were happy for them to continue.
Let's not forget it isn't the RFL who have stopped these people buying bradford |
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| Quote ="The Devil's Advocate"Surely it’s one thing being a fit & proper person and entirely another providing proof of funds.
Maybe the administrator was happy, maybe he didn’t care that much as long as he got his fee, however, it’s blatantly obvious the RFL weren’t happy with the Newco’s financial projections.'"
They say that, but haven't actually done anything to address that situation |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"It's worse than that if you believe the RFL, they allowed a club to start the season without any confidence they could complete it, and, on acceptance of the points deduction were happy for them to continue.
...'"
Quote ="RFL"“Throughout our dealings with them, the club’s directors were unable to provide any evidence of new capital investment into Bradford Bulls and consequently, the RFL Executive had no confidence in the business plan that was presented.'"
... " =#4000FFbut despite having no evidence of funding and no confidence in your business plan, we will happily let you carry on in SL, take 6 point pen and crack on".
That appears to summarise the RFL position. |
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