Yes they would. The grand final is what matters form is temporary class is permanent. Cas could not cut it when it mattered, out of the 3 really big games theybhave played this year they lost the two that really mattered 2 and have ended up with the lesser of all the prizes

I think this idea that Cas bottled it and did not turn up is way off the mark, Cas success this year has been off fast play the balls gaining quick momentum and fast yards, then well planned executed set plays utilising dummy runners and creating over Lapps. They simply never got that last night due to Leeds. Completely dominating them in defense, Leeds just stopped them dead in there tracks and Cas never got any momentum, when Cas did move the ball out wide, Leeds had learned their lessons from previous games and numbered up and used a great slide defense.
It was a masterful defenseive display which gave the foundation for a dominant win.

Also it was wet drizzly all night both sides lost plenty of ball, Leeds just handled the situation better.

I reckon that Cas performance yesterday has devalued the LLS its gone back to Hub Cap status again. For the seasons favourites to be be nilled right up to the 79th minute is a real choker of a situation.

Congratulations to Leeds - in spite of everything, their experience showed; after a year when Cas have been lauded as playing some kind of magical version of RL, they took them apart - with help from secret agent Hardaker.

Poor game - and not a great advert for the sport - but a fitting end to the careers of two Leeds legends; both of whom would have walked into any SL side and made it better.

The LLS has always been a lesser prize since the game reintroduced the play off deciders in 1998. I loved watching us win it in 2011 because I'd never seen us do it before, but I didn't care much last year because all I wanted was the big prize which continues to elude us. We have loads of people in Warrington trying to declare us the true champions of 2011 and 2016 and whinging about the "Sky Cup" (conveniently ignoring that the Rugby League Championship Final pre-dates Sky by decades).

Do we want a format where the champions are potentially declared weeks before the end of the season (as Cas would have been this year), followed by a Premiership Trophy which, although very nice, would be a lesser prize and after a few years would result in finals being held at Challenge Cup semi final level grounds because only week in week out supporters of the two clubs involved would really bother going? Personally I prefer the format where it's on the line right up until the very end of the season and decided in front of 70,000 at the biggest ground in the north in a showpiece fixture. Just because I personally have three dreadful memories of that fixture doesn't change anything. Cas peaked early. Leeds knew. They're the champions and fully deserve the title.

Well done Leeds Rhino's - congratulations on yesterdays performance and champions 2017.



As for my team - we just didn't turn up and as coach Powell states - we saved the worst performance till last. We'll learn from it and move on to 2018 with new goals knowing there isn't much to fix just a bit of tweaking here and there.

Albert goldthorpe medal





go on- tell us how many times he's won a man of the match award. He's been no where near the top players in the competition for his previous career. A Leeds player has never won that award- yet look at how many shiny things they've won!

Well said, I went last year as a neutral and enjoyed it, was hoping you lot won, but hey ho. It's he best way to end the season and brstvway to decide the championship.

Absolutely - this same old LLS arguement comes out every time a new team wins the LLS and doesn't go on to win the big one.

It's a flawed argument - everyone starts the season knowing the regular rounds are just qualifiers, and the Champions are those who lift the trophy at Old Trafford.

If it was a first passed the post League system, you'd find certain teams (mainly Leeds, Wigan, Saints and over recent years Warrington) would drastically change the way in which they approach the season and a team like Cas might not have had such an easy ride.

The trick is absolutely to put yourself in the play offs by doing enough in the regular rounds, and then build to peak at the play offs. Leeds have mastered this, and have a group of Champion players who know how to get the job done on the biggest stage.

The stage becomes bigger when you walk out at Old Trafford and Wembley. They aren’t your average league games at little grounds where in the ladder the most consistent (not necessarily the best) team tops the chart. It’s a stage to show who can raise their game way above a level shown in front of 1900 fans at the AJ Bell or 3200 at the Kirklees. Some players can’t handle that change in stage and intensity so winning 23 games trough the season means nothing if 70000 fans at Old Trafford or Wembley makes you feel like you don’t belong there or changes the way you play because you’re overawed.

If you can win on those stages and do it time and time again, THAT is what marks you out as a great side. Not one good consistent league season. If Cas do that again in the league next season it will be an even better achievement because it shows that it’s not just a good run of form and that everyone else was just bobbins that year. But do that and win at Old Trafford and Wembley is bigger again, but still not marking out a team as great. Do it time after time and that’s what great is.

Cas has a fine season, they were good to watch, but that’s all.

He's been the most consistent half back in the league over the last 3 years. I was proving you wrong when you made out he'd had just 1 good year. He didn't play well last night but a lot of that stems from the 18 handling errors we made. It doesn't make him a bad player. He's rightfully man of steel and rightfully gunna heading to Oz to play in a world cup for England.

Quite easily, the worst performance in a grand final by any team. Leeds could have played their under 18s and still won

Regards

King James

Also it’s not just the last 20 years, the champions have been decided by a Grand Final in 73 years of Rugby League’s history.

John Monie once said "Great teams aren't great all the time, but great when they need to be"

True. It can happen. See hull fc Wembley 2013. They haven't done too badly after that sobering experience. Really reminded me of that game .

Castleford were just very naive in their approach. 5 minutes into a grand final you take 2 points from in front of the posts. I't's not even a debate for Grand final veterans, let alone a team in their maiden grand final. It seemed like cas thought they would just turn up, then off the back of a few quick play the balls put on some of their scripted but very eye catching and effective block plays and rip leeds up on the fringes, and then leeds would cower and go away.

When that didn't immediately happen they seemed to lose their focus and began making basic errors. Had they been mentally prepared for a grind, it may not have affected their concentration so much after the first 10 minutes, when it was clear they weren't going to tear leeds apart like they have been doing.

Still I guess Cas can comfort themselves with the old adage of 'you have to lose one before you can win one' just like warrington did in 2012.

Exactly. I said it last night that it was such a ridiculous decision not to kick the 2. Leeds were fresh so it wasn't like they were blowing while trying to defend their line after tons of consecutive sets. The weather was poor so it should have been an obvious choice to take the 2.
The mental aspect of getting points on the board early and getting yourself in front would also have been a big boost for Cas.

I'm sure Powell was drilling into the team all week that it was not going to be easy, but I think the players belied their and the fans hype that they would easily put Leeds to the sword, it was arrogant and probable showed a lack of respect that probably gave Leeds a boost, 2 easy points so early in the game on a wet night should have been a given, like you say any other side would have taken two.

The competition now definitely is about doing enough through the regular season then hitting your straps and aiming to peak at Old Trafford. The only issue I have with that is how much it dilutes the regular season. The Super League isn't just about a Grand Final at the end of the year, it's about seeing high quality, intense games happening every week. Obviously we aren't seeing that.

We need to find a balance somehow between what I think is a good finals format at the end of the year as well as quality and intensity throughout the regular games. Unfortunately we don't have many teams which have genuine competition for places, so the jeopardy of losing your starting place through poor form doesn't really exist. So the motivation amongst a group of players during the first half of the season probably isn't as high as it needs to be to produce blockbuster matches which are great to watch.

So, when did it start to go wrong for Cas? For me when they decided to rest players against Hull two weeks ago. Before then they were flying, they should have kept that intensity going.

How many times do you see ‘in form’ teams rest players / have a week off (old playoff format) and it cost them dearly.

They played Hull and were well beaten, they go on to perform poorly (for them) against a determined Saints team with a solid pedigree for winning big games when it matters and were ten seconds from going out.

They scrape through that and then don’t bother showing up for the final.

Plenty to learn for Powell it seems!

I'm not sure if the changes against Hull were a big thing. Think they just found out there's a different level of pressure and nerves when it comes to playoffs and they couldn't handle that as a group.

Wires wouldn't have, and we'd have lost as well.

Madness isn't it.

It certainly is a gamble and on a wet October Old Traffprd night it would be my choice. However, Sinfield taking the two against us (Wire) at Wembley backfired IMO as it showed a lack of confidence, or a weakness on that occasion and seemed to spur us on.

I'm not knocking Sinfield's or Leeds' winning record BTW how could anyone? However, nor do I condemn Cas as being arrogant as some have suggested. Sometimes you have to back yourself and the boost for Leeds wasn't Cas showing them a lack of respect, but, the fact that Leeds kept them out.

Funnily enough in the 2015 GF Sinfield turned down kickable penalties on more than one occasion when the scores were level at 6-6 and we scored from the resulting sets, guess you just have to feel how the game is going