Why do we have to follow suit and do what the rest do? I don't agree with playing non English players. Let's stick with our own.

I'd have Ellis but I think he's retired from Internationals. Can't go for Talanoa, Fonua, Michaels, Tuimivave, Minnicello, Manu, & Pritchard so half the Hull 17 cannot be selected.

Out of the rest:

Shaul, a very good club player, I think we need more from an International full back and a player who would be able to act as a pivot and playmaker.
Houghton, again another very good club player and if we went for an 80 min hooker would be a good option. I prefer Hodgeson to start with the impact of Clark off the bench.
Sneyd, close call with Gale, I prefer the latter.
Taylor, in my squad, Graham, G Burgess & Hill are better, I went for Walemsley for impact rather than replacing like for like.

Exactly. The day we start regularly picking average overseas players over own is the day I reckon many would jack in international rugby.

There are not 17 players in the UK currently who are qualified/good enough to give the Aussies or Kiwis a tough game.
The reasons why are very obvious and have been for decades.
Moving the deckchairs on a sinking ship, standard RL thinking in this country, is unlikely to change anytime soon.
I just give the Aussies the edge as being the team to win the 4 nation & world cup.
England will be known as a team that took part. Wayne Bennett ,as good a coach as he is, cannot make success out of poor materials.
Cant see the materials improving under the current ridiculous situation of how the game is run in this country.

You do realise that the last time we played Australia (in Australia) we were 1cm away from winning, and we beat NZ twics less than a year ago?

I know you can only play what's in front of you, but had NZ taken that series seriously, and didn't withdraw players left p, right and centre, then they would've won at a canter.

Never thought i would say this, but i hope all Wigan players have minor niggles that keep them out of contention, including Tomkins.

ryan hall got his hand down on that ball

Whatever happens please let it not be watkins inside mgilvary again! That was a nightmare!

I didn't think this was going to be a proper England thread but thankfully someone rescued it with the annual comment "our pack can match the aussies". It's a line that has been used every year since rlfans went live and in that time I think we've matched their pack once

Regards

King James

we shouldn't be looking to just match them but to batter them. We have inferior backs and our real chance is to steam roll them with our big fellas.

Shaul/Lomax
McGillvery/
Cudjoe/Watkins
Atkins/Percival
Manfredi/Johnstone
Ratchford/Williams
Gale/Sneyd
Hill
Houghton
Taylor
Currie
Bateman
O'Loughlin

Clarke
Westerman
Walmsley/Green
Watts/

I've heard there's this league in Australia where a few English lads play. Called the NRL or something? Some of them are supposedly pretty good too.

I was responding to an earlier post suggesting we couldn't put out a SL team that could compete with Aus/NZ

Congratulations on demonstrating that we cannot.

Agreed.

Also agree. Though I'm not sure the current crop including the NRL contingent stands a real chance of winning either. The gap between SL and NRL is widening. I don't think there has been as poor a production line of English half-backs and stand-offs as there is currently.

People keep saying this, as if it is a self-evident fact, but as pointed out upthread, we have beaten the the Kiwis the last couple of times and were a hair's breadth from beating the Aussies Down Under last time. Fact is, the Aussies aren't exactly packed with superstars either, compared to periods in the past. Really only JT of the current crop is going to be remembered in another generation's time.

We demolished the kiwis in the All golds tour of 2007, beat them 44-0 in Hull. We beat Australia the year before.

As for only JT being remembered in another generation, nonsense. Cam Smith is up there with any 9 ever, Inglis may not be in the form of his life, but he is a special, special player and compared to any back in my lifetime.

Australia have much more depth of top talent.

However I don't think there are as many really amazing players as there were in the days of Lewis, Meninga, Sterling, Kenny, Pearce etc.

Thurston, Inglis, Smith and that's about it for players at that really stella level. As has been said Inglis has been ordinary this year.

I'd add Paul Gallen and Billy Slater to the list of those that have stood out for the Aussies from the current "generation", although neither may play in the upcoming series. Also Cronk has been a perfect foil for JT, that combination transitioning well from the pretty unbeatable JT/Lockyer combo.

The main thing will be which Aussies and Kiwis will be fit/bothered/able/motivated/allowed* to play come the 4 Nations

*delete as applicable.

Agreed. The Aussie team has been built around the Queensland spine of Slater, Inglis, JT, Cronk and Smith for the best part of a decade and those are the names that will be remembered from this era,but all of them are coming to the end of their careers now and past their very best. Will still be more than a handful mind im sure but the next set of greats are yet to present themselves.Knowing the Aussies conveyor belt though, they will on this tour

Inglis, Slater, Smith and Thurston have been superstars, Austrailias main strength though has been that they haven't had any weaknesses in their teams. A number of the players people are naming for England would be a weakness.

We've said this for years, that the Aussies are only strong in a few positions and those players are knocking on. Ive been hearing for 20 years they wouldnt replace Fittler, they wont replace Johns, they cant replace Buderus, or Lockyer. Yet here we are with Thurston, Smith, Cronk, Inglis and saying the same thing.


The sad fact is that in quite a few positions, the aussies can name two or three players better than anything we have.

Tomkins
Manfredi
Watkins
Cudjoe (Cant think of another decent centre)
Mcgilvary
Brown
Gale
Burgess
Clarke
Hill
Bateman
Currie
O Loughlin