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| Quote ="TheElectricGlidingWarrior"I think you'll find there are a number of posts by Wigan fans saying LMS should have been selected.'"
Lighten up!
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| Quote ="Newton-Le-willows-Warrior"when all the aussie based players come back in I hope we line up something like
1. Sam Tomkins
2. Josh Charnley
3. Jack Reed
4. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Danny Brough
8. James Graham
9. James Roby
10. Sam Burgess
11. Gareth Hock
12. Gareth Ellis
13. Sean O'Loughlin
14. Lee Mossop
15. Luke Burgess
16. Ben Westwood
17. Mike McIllorum
'"
I'd have a similar team to this but a few changes.
1. I'd play Briscoe over Charnley. Both very good but I think that Briscoe is slightly better at the moment. Briscoe has done really well in an average/poor side over the past couple of years, whereas Charnley has been in a very strong team to help him out. Also, Briscoe didn't do anything wrong the last time he played for England.
2. I'd swap out Watkins for Atkins. Watkins, whilst talented, has constantly been injured and Atkins has been playing very well and deserves to play.
3. I wouldn't have in Luke Burgess. Playing in the NRL doesn't mean that you're better than others, and I think that there have been better players than him this year. Patrick, Crabtree, etc, would all be ahead of him in my opinion.
So
Tomkins
Hall
Reed
Atkins
Briscoe
Widdop
Brough
Graham
Roby
Burgess
Hock
Ellis
O'Loughlin
McIllorum
Crabtree
Mossop
Westwood
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| From that squad I would go for
Sam Tomkins
Tom Briscoe
Ryan Atkins
Leroy Cudjoe
Ryan Hall
Rangi Chase
Danny Brough
Jamie Peacock
James Roby
Lee Mossop
Carl Ablett
Gareth Hock
Sean O’Loughlin
Garreth Carvell
Eorl Crabtree
Jamie Jones-Buchanan
Rob Burrow
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| Sam Burgess will play at 13.
With a full squad to pick from I'd go with:
Tomkins
Briscoe/Charnley
Reed
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Brough
Graham
Roby
Mossop
Westwood
Ellis
Burgess
Burrow
Hock
Crabtree
Morley/Luke Burgess/Carvell/Hill
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| Quote ="Panda92"I'd have a similar team to this but a few changes.
1. I'd play Briscoe over Charnley. Both very good but I think that Briscoe is slightly better at the moment. Briscoe has done really well in an average/poor side over the past couple of years, whereas Charnley has been in a very strong team to help him out. Also, Briscoe didn't do anything wrong the last time he played for England.
2. I'd swap out Watkins for Atkins. Watkins, whilst talented, has constantly been injured and Atkins has been playing very well and deserves to play.
3. I wouldn't have in Luke Burgess. Playing in the NRL doesn't mean that you're better than others, and I think that there have been better players than him this year. Patrick, Crabtree, etc, would all be ahead of him in my opinion.
So
Tomkins
Hall
Reed
Atkins
Briscoe
Widdop
Brough
Graham
Roby
Burgess
Hock
Ellis
O'Loughlin
McIllorum
Crabtree
Mossop
Westwood'"
Can't argue much with that squad, looks a pretty good side too. I'd only possibly put Robinson in instead of McIllorum to offer some impact from the bench.
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| A very disappointing squad. It makes depressing reading it has to be said. We have 18 months to a World Cup and we continue to pick the same ageing failures that don't even have club level form any more. So frustrating to see talented young players not being given their chance. We should be rid of a quarter of these players and we can't expect success or even improvement for as long as they are around the squad regardless of their success at club level.
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| Gary Schofield speaks an awful lot of sense here:
[urlhttp://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby/view/256007/Steve-McNamara-has-missed-big-chance/#comments[/url
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| Agreed.
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| Quote ="Famous"Gary Schofield speaks an awful lot of sense here:
[urlhttp://www.dailystar.co.uk/rugby/view/256007/Steve-McNamara-has-missed-big-chance/#comments[/url'"
What do they say about a stopped clock, twice a day?
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| Lol @ Famous quoting Garry Schofield to support his obsession over Mickey Mac and Darryl Inglis.
Give it up already, they're both pants. Picking on form can only go so far. It should be used to separate players of relatively equal ability, not to pick the squad.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Lol @ Famous quoting Garry Schofield to support his obsession over Mickey Mac and Darryl Inglis.
Give it up already, they're both pants. Picking on form can only go so far. It should be used to separate players of relatively equal ability, not to pick the squad.'"
lost for words comes to mind when reading your usual rubbish. is it an act you like to try to be more popular on here?
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| Quote ="dubairl"lost for words comes to mind when reading your usual rubbish. is it an act you like to try to be more popular on here?'"
I'm right on this, you know I am.
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| I do like this:
Quote It seems harder to get out of the current England set-up than into it.
'"
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| Quote ="Saddened!"I'm right on this, you know I am.'"
your not even close, goulding this season has been better for us than gleeson was when we won the grand final, probably the most natural in superleague this season, a lot better than cudjoe anyway.
micky mac has been the best hooker in superleague and the only argument people can come up with is hes playing behind the best pack in the league, well here's the difference he doesn't play behind a pack he leads the pack, he is brutal in defense and doesn't rely on hes forwards to land on the front to gain a fast play of the ball. hes distribution off the floor is one of the best in the league and he has also learned when to take defenses on and when to ship it out to the backs. roby is a good hooker, the best at scooting and putting defenses under pressure also a good tackler but not a big hitter, but he is a 1 trick pony and has been found out by wigan at least 4 or 5 times now.
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| Quote ="dubairl"your not even close, goulding this season has been better for us than gleeson was when we won the grand final, probably the most natural Centre in superleague this season, a lot better than cudjoe anyway.
micky mac has been the best hooker in superleague and the only argument people can come up with is hes playing behind the best pack in the league, well here's the difference he doesn't play behind a pack he leads the pack, he is brutal in defense and doesn't rely on hes forwards to land on the front to gain a fast play of the ball. hes distribution off the floor is one of the best in the league and he has also learned when to take defenses on and when to ship it out to the backs. roby is a good hooker, the best at scooting and putting defenses under pressure also a good tackler but not a big hitter, but he is a 1 trick pony and has been found out by wigan at least 4 or 5 times now.'"
Are you seriously suggesting McIllorum is a better player than James Roby?
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Quote ="dubairl"your not even close, goulding this season has been better for us than gleeson was when we won the grand final, probably the most natural Centre in superleague this season, a lot better than cudjoe anyway.
micky mac has been the best hooker in superleague and the only argument people can come up with is hes playing behind the best pack in the league, well here's the difference he doesn't play behind a pack he leads the pack, he is brutal in defense and doesn't rely on hes forwards to land on the front to gain a fast play of the ball. hes distribution off the floor is one of the best in the league and he has also learned when to take defenses on and when to ship it out to the backs. roby is a good hooker, the best at scooting and putting defenses under pressure also a good tackler but not a big hitter, but he is a 1 trick pony and has been found out by wigan at least 4 or 5 times now.'"
Are you seriously suggesting McIllorum is a better player than James Roby?'"
yes the only difference is roby has been at the top longer that is it. apart from scooting what is roby better at?* some reason everybody is wowed by the meters he makes, well look to the next column and see how many carries he has, its as if its impossible for him to pass it off the floor.
*anwser this question properly dont just ignore it or make some thing up like roby is a better passer.
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| Quote ="dubairl"yes the only difference is roby has been at the top longer that is it. apart from scooting what is roby better at?* some reason everybody is wowed by the meters he makes, well look to the next column and see how many carries he has, its as if its impossible for him to pass it off the floor.
*anwser this question properly dont just ignore it or make some thing up like roby is a better passer.'"
Roby's far from just a scooter. Yes, that's a major strength, but he's a far more complete player than, say, Micky Higham was.
I'll not renounce McIlorum, he's having an excellent season by all accounts, but the way the posts are flying about is ridiculous - using the games where Wigan have blitzed Saints off the park as a whole as an example of why one hooker is better than the other.
Tell me this, had Roby and McIlorum walked into the wrong dressing rooms at MM, would McIlorum's performace have come anywhere near that of Roby's? That's what some posts seem to imply.
Posters shouldn't use the fact that even my Nan could look good going forward amongst the wigan pack to penalise McIlorum, he's obviously very competant at dummy half. He's also a very agressive defender, which shouldn't be underestimate at test level.
He's not as good as Roby, though. Its no disgrace.
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"Roby's far from just a scooter. Yes, that's a major strength, but he's a far more complete player than, say, Micky Higham was.
I'll not renounce McIlorum, he's having an excellent season by all accounts, but the way the posts are flying about is ridiculous - using the games where Wigan have blitzed Saints off the park as a whole as an example of why one hooker is better than the other.
Tell me this, had Roby and McIlorum walked into the wrong dressing rooms at MM, would McIlorum's performace have come anywhere near that of Roby's? That's what some posts seem to imply.
Posters shouldn't use the fact that even my Nan could look good going forward amongst the wigan pack to penalise McIlorum, he's obviously very competant at dummy half. He's also a very agressive defender, which shouldn't be underestimate at test level.
He's not as good as Roby, though. Its no disgrace.'"
i can see where your coming from your a saints fan who is allways going to say roby is better and im a wigan fan who will say micky mac is better, but this season i dont think any hook has come close to micky mac and if he got injured it would be as big a blow as tomkins or finch getting injured.
honest question other than scooting alot more what has roby done what so fantastic and makes him so much better than Mcilorum?
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| Quote ="dubairl"i can see where your coming from your a saints fan who is allways going to say roby is better and im a wigan fan who will say micky mac is better, but this season i dont think any hook has come close to micky mac and if he got injured it would be as big a blow as tomkins or finch getting injured.
honest question other than scooting alot more what has roby done what so fantastic and makes him so much better than Mcilorum?'"
He's got a better kicking game, more 40:20s and 10 more assists for a start. He's far better.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"He's got a better kicking game, more 40:20s and 10 more assists for a start. He's far better.'"
ok so he kicks better ,, only ten more assists? the amount he runs with the ball you would think it would have been at least ten times the amount. like many have said roby plays for him self not the team and thats why saints only know one way at thats route 1, Scoot till you receive a penalty or crash over from ten yards out.
where as Mcilorum chooses hes opitions alot better this year. gives quick distrubtion which allows wigan the space outwide and this tatic doesn't need the stupid ruck speed of superleague to get infront. or he take the scoot usually at the right time this season.
been many years of brainwashing from stevo who loves it when a hookers scoot never once have i heard him say well done for the quick accurate pass from dummy half, just says oowww thats great work from dummy half that trying to catch them out offside. or eddies catch phrase of a "great scampering run from dummy half".
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| sorry, wrong board
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| Roby isn't just better than McIlorum he's on another level to McIlorum.
Roby would push for a place in an Oz/SOO side, McIlorum just wouldn't.
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| McIlorum is miles behind Roby and Burrow, and doesn't have any of the attributes with which he could catch up with them.
Wigan fans are funny though.
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| Looked to me like Rhys Lovegrove was out to prove a point last night following his omission from the squads.
Outstanding effort from the big fella in both attack and defence. England need to come calling.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"He's got a better kicking game, more 40:20s and 10 more assists for a start. He's far better.'"
I wouldnt say Roby has got a better kicking game. He also does not have more 40:20s , they both have 1 each, so that is a complete lie straight away
With the type of game Saints play I'd expect Roby to have more try assists. The entire Saints game plan consists of trying to get close to the opponents line so that Roby can do a flat pass so a forward can barge over from one yard out. I dont really think your hooker being the leader for try assists is really such a good thing though, from a Saints point of view. It shows just how much Roby monolpolises play to the detriment of the team, and its attack and creativity, as a whole.
Wigan on the other hand play a far more varied game and score tries all over the place with Tomkins, Finch, Goulding and Leuluai all into double figures for try assists. Playing the way Wigan do it is no surprise McIlorum isnt near the top of try assists for Wigan and I wouldnt want or expect him to be either.
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