So there is no actual evidence for it.

It is good business sense, but it shows the huge difference in size between Cas and some other clubs.
Im not arguing some clubs in SL arent been run in an unsustainable manner, they are.

And im not arguing Cas should spend more than they have. Im saying they are quite a way behind the other clubs, and playing catch up, and not in a position to be turning down growth opportunities. They have to do something or be left behind.

No, its because the game was run for a long time by people who got caught in meaningless personal battles between parishes and ignored the greater good of the game, thankfully an end was put to that and we have seen almost unfettered growth since.

And we dont get 7k for an international, we (as in england) generally get between 12k and 40k depending on the opponents.

So spending more money each year building up to the full cap isn't good, but merging with a bankrupt club with no fans is a good idea, when said merger WILL lose more fans compared to what it would gain?



And as for being quite a way behind "the other teams" what other teams are they then? Bradford? Hull FC? both of them do brilliantly spending the full cap don't they?

And they're hardly being left behind are they? consistently mid table without spending as much as the teams above them? how good will they be in a year or 2 in a new stadium spending the full cap? Cas don't need a merger, Wakefield do - so it wont happen because both parties will not gain from it.

they do have fans, they have about 6k fans, we know this to be true because they turn up most weeks, its not one of your made up facts, its actually true.

And are you really saying that more than 50% of each clubs fans would quit the game altogether than watch a merged club, and there isnt enough potential in the district to attract more new fans for the merged club?

A huge amount better than Castleford on the field and in most other areas yes.

Except Cas will get the chance to target the 6k fans we know exist in Wakefield, they will lose a competitor, they will gain about £2million from the RFL, and pretty much guarantee themselves a license. Along with the fact that when they do open their new stadium their wont be another one opening 1 junction down the road fighting for the same fans. Apart from that they wouldnt get anything.

So how have Bradford and the far superior on field performances fared the last 2 years in comparison to Cas? yeah, worse

So, let me get this straight, you think that the 6,000 Wakey fans (who mustered 500 season ticket sales this year, how loyal) would come watch a merged club in numbers - when as shown they wont even help their own club in hard times?

I know, while we're at it lets merge the 2 Hull teams so they aren't competing for the same fans, Leeds & Bradford, Wigan & St Helens, Warrington & Widnes



Simple fact is, as sad as it is - if they can't survive then "for the greater good of the sport" as you put it earlier - let Wakefield die and start again from the bottom, the league will be stronger without them, and with your thinking those 6000 Wakefield fans will become Cas fans over night meaning the average attendance for Cas games would be 13,000+.

Why would we be so ridiculous as to only compare the last two years? And then why would be so ridiculous as to only compare one of the two clubs you mentioned.

Since the advent of SL and since Hulls merger, both Hull and Bradford have been superior to Castleford in pretty much every facet.

I think some of them would yes, i think it would be niave to think otherwise. I have been to games at Wakefield, and Castleford and Bradford when Leeds arent playing because I enjoy RL. If Leeds ceased to exist for whatever reason I wouldn't stop enjoying RL. I would simply go watch one of the other clubs in the area.

The two hull teams may do in time, Leeds, Bradford, Wigan, Saints, Warrington are all superior to Castleford and Wakefield.

The league would be stronger with an amalgamation of Cas and Wakefield than it would to lose wakefield and add nothing to Cas. As i said i dont believe all 6k of Wakefields fans would move over, but i dont doubt that if marketed and sold properly within 5 years we would see at least 70% of them do so. With likely around 30-50% immediately, moving to the merged club and seeing attendances of around 9-11k

I don’t believe he is trying to provoke anyone.

The gist of his argument is that Castleford as a separate entity will never be able to match the ‘big boys’ of the game.

A club under the district banner could achieve both the required attendances and also harvest what is obviously a hot-bed for future talent.

exactly.

I want to see a club in the district that is really pushing the big boys, year in year out.

Which could also be done by the club WITHOUT being merged, this has happened bother in the past and starting to happen now, Cas are able to pick up the best juniors in the district ahead of Wakefield, have a larger fan base and are a more financially viable business.

The fact is Smokey, as usual is just trying to bore people into agreeing with him, Cas are doing fine without Wakefield, and have been for 70 odd years, and with the new ground WILL be up with the "bigger" teams, it's just a common and crap thought that fans of other clubs (usually Leeds, not surprisingly) that Cas & Wakefield should merge, when in fact they shouldn't, especially when you consider they never work.

What I fail to understand is why people THINK and BELIEVE that Cas NEED a merger

they have no need (nor desire for that matter) to do it and are quite capable of being financially sustainable in a ground that's falling to pieces, new stadium will bring in more fans and revenue without losing the clubs history.




No you don't



Some simple things for you here, Cas are spending close to full cap this year, with a new stadium 18 months away being able to spend the full salary cap will be available every single year, WITHOUT the help of Wakefield, simple. A few additions to an already talented squad (along with one of the best junior set ups in the country) they will be up there "year in year out" and don't be shocked to see them top 5 this year.

You may believe that, but it simply hasnt happened in the professional era. We are getting on for 20 years of a fully pro game now and neither of the clubs in the district have achieved anything of note. Castleford have been relegated twice and Wakefield have bombed along the bottom.

Castleford may have been doing just fine before, but just fine isnt good enough anymore. It isnt the 1960's anymore.

ive thought long and hard of the pros and cons of a merger with wakefield.

my take on it is that its probably a non starter,rugby league is more than a game to the people of castleford its our identity and a way of life and to rock the boat would potentially cause greater dammage than people think,all the talk is of wakefield fans wouldnt follow a team based at glasshoughton but i also believe some castleford people wouldnt watch a wakefield district team based at glasshoughton.

most supporters see winning a grand final or getting to wembley has the pinicle of their club and whilst thats what every cas fan would love to see i think the majority are happy to follow a team that provides a career for local juniors and thrives on seeing our own on the field "something we are doing now" and im not too sure where wakefield fit in with this.

for my money wakey need to start a fresh and re-build in the championship and hopefully progress from their,clubs like eastmoor,stanley and crigglestone are good providers for wakefield and this where they need to concentrate and get a team full of local lads and the supporters will stand by them and they may also be very suprised by the standard of rugby in the nl,teams always bang on about super league but lets be honest the rfl are turning it into a circus where the colour of the seat and location on the map are far more important than the game and in the long run this will dammage the sport.

only my opinion.

Right, you do know that not every team can be in and around the top of the table every year?



And you fail to note that with a new stadium 18 MONTHS away at the very most will allow them to spend the full salary cap, adding to a team that's already comfortably top 8 quality will make the team better. But that doesn't go with your (weak and poor) argument does it?









But shh stop talking sense Smokey will come and multi-quote you and make weak baseless judgements that he will keep going with until you get bored of him and stop replying

Yes, and neither Castleford nor Wakefield have been consistently at the top for nearly 50 years, Castleford havent won anything for 20 years. They arent comfortably top 8 quality, thats why they didnt get in the top 8 last year, they are miles behind Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Huddersfield and Hull KR, and there are only two more places left, with teams like Salford, Bradford Hull, Crusaders, Les Catalans all more than capable of making it into the top 8 ahead of Castleford.

You may want to pretend everything is rosy, you may want to pretend the stadium is guaranteed to be built and that it will be the catalyst to propel Castleford to the level of clubs which are currently doubling their attendance, but there is nothing out there to suggest that is the case, and even less to guarantee it being there.

Thats fair enough, but it seems fairly unambitious for both Cas and Wakefield. Is the elite level really the place for clubs who are happy just to provide a career for local juniors? This isnt a bad thing, in fact it is a good thing, but is the elite level the place for it.

I hope you’re not counting me as one of the people he is boring into agreement?

That’s Smokey’s take on it, not mine.

But in a climate of Cas fans thinking their practically over the winning line, the M word rears its head, what irony.

A bit like Gandalf copping for the Balrog’s whip.

If cas can do better than any team that would replace them, yes its, if cas are wanting to grow as a club as well the answer is also yes. Over the last few years cas have improved in youth development, crowds (though we did have a blip last year with two games being rearanged resulting in our attendancing dipping), sponsorship, community programs and we have made strides towards the ground (which will be built for next year just not the start of the season). We are doing what the rfl has asked clubs to do in the franchise system, we are growing as a club, which hasnt been easy after being set back years by our first relegation.

Cas could claim they are going to win sl every year but no team will without a a very rich man behind them to buy the top coaches and pay transfer fees for the best players, if we get a sugar daddy we will have as much chance of anyone of doing so in a salary cap system, in fact with the strides we have made in youth development i would say we would have a better chance than more than half the teams in the league. You yourself have argued that the way to success is to develop local talent.

and you was doing so well.

If the stadium is built, i would like to think it has the same effect that the new stadium for Warrington did, i'm using them as an example because Cas and Warrington for many years were similar clubs in team ability and attendances, if anything Cas were always just that bit better, when Warrington got their new ground it took them to another level above Cas, and hopefully the same will happen for Cas in the near future.

Theres a big differance between attending the odd game at another club and becoming a regular supporter, that attends game week in week out and buy merchandise, you have to have a passion for the club to do that.

I've no idea where you come up with those number as it cant be from talking to fans, theres no way wakey fans would come over in such numbers, to even have a chance at getting half those numbers you would have to call the team wakefield and the amount of cas fans that would support a team called wakefield would be in the hundreds at best.

warrington got a new stadium + huge investment from Mr Moran. It was both that have fuelled their growth. Not one individually.

That isnt the case at all. Just being the best of however many teams doesnt mean you should be in the elite league, thats the reason we have an elite league.

If Cas's best aim is to simply offer a career to the local juniors and nobody below can offer more, we would be better cutting the size of SL.

And you dont need a sugar daddy to buy the best players or pay the full SC, both Leeds and Hull do it whilst making a profit. You could argue there are reasons Leeds and Hull can do this and Castleford cant, but they are simply reasons that SL may not be the right place for Cas.

The way to success is to develop local talent, but how many are you losing because you cant afford to keep them? If all the aim of Cas is to bring in local talent train them until 20/21/22 then let them go to the bigger clubs, they can do that in the championships.

If you are in SL, more is demanded of you.

Even if you get half those numbers, its a ridiculously huge amount better than getting none of them.

Cas would stand an even better chance of success if a club like Leeds didn't spend so much time in the area cherry picking some of the young talent with promises of the world,freebies for the kids and match tickets & tours of the stadium for the parents.

Doncaster have a new stadium!

Yes they do, and a very nice stadium it is too but they don't have bums on seats. At least Cas know if they build it the fans will come.