Personally, I'd say Lock Lane and Cas Panthers are probably on a par with Leigh East and Leigh Miners – and both equally irrelevant, along with, for instance, Cas schools' performance in the schools comp.

The point about the youth development aspect of the franchise criteria is what [iyour [/iclub is doing to develop youth, not what some other totally separate and independent clubs are doing, just because they're in the same rough area as you.

Without knowing a great deal about Leigh or its youth system, I'd guess the fans aren't confident about what they're doing as whenever youth development comes up, they talk about what two diffetrent clubs are doing.

No, you're miles behind in most aspects bar the ground.

Just as expansion clubs should not be expected to produce professional quality players in their early years , also non SL clubs should not be expected to produce SL quality players

It is no surprise that the Cumbrian clubs seem to find it easier to produce more SL players than other Championship clubs , they have much less competition for the top raw talent than the likes of Leigh , Fax and keighley

How many Internationals have Cas produced in the last 10 years ? , as that is the equivalent of a Championship club producing a SL player

It is clearly mission impossible for Championship clubs to compete for the best juniors with local SL neighbours , the RFL know it , there is rarely any benifit for a club to even try to do so

Anybody trying to argue different on here is being equally stupid

barrows ground is certainly better than wakey or bradford.....as at least as a basic ground entrance paying customer you have undercover terracing available if it rains!!

Tek a coat ya soft bugger!

crikey when did all the prawn sandwich brigade start going to RL games,

You should be used to a bit of water if your from Cumbria lad!

I have just moved home after living and working in Carlisle for 9 months. It only rained once though!

It started in September and it's still going now!!!!!

Why don't they set them into 5 Criteria, and rate them to a score out of 100; 20 for Ground, 24 for Average Crowds 16 for Financial Investment/Stability, 20 for League Record, and 20 for Acadamy/Home-Grown Squad (including players playing for England Bonus.) I'm off to do a little calculation, and work this all out, and I'll be back in about an hour, with the results

forget all the other criteria....income,academy,location etc etc....all it will come down to is who has a sparkling new ground ready for start of 2012 season!!

Which is why I said that with £1m a year of Sky money we'd have half a chance on converting it into a decent youth programme.

We struggle to pay first team wages yet Wigan, Saints and Wire, all within a 20 minute drive, have big juicy cheque books. Even John Wilkys cash at Salford turns local lads heads.

It's not really rocket science is it?

OK, you show me concrete proof Cas will start a ground before franchise day and in the morning I'll post your accounts again.

Go on (and I know you're sensible) tell me where and why.

i'm intrigued, how is Cas's youth system better?

Wakefields Academy won last years comp.

Brough
Westwood
Ellis
Mason
Snitch
Pitts
amongst many others to have come through at Wakefield

Ferguson
Morton
Blaymire
Murphy and a host of others are still at Wakefield and playing regular SL rugby

In the past:

Orr
Lynch
Godwin
Elima
Lunt
Boyle
Gledhill (technically both of ours)
Watts

This seasons squad:
Westerman
Owen
Shenton
Huby
Milner
Walker
Arundel
Davies
Massey
Thompson
Holmes

All those are recent top divison players - if you go further back we have the likes of Sampson. We also have many in the lower leagues. Please don't make me trawl through there.

I did'nt post a finite list.

Based on your criteia heres a few more:
Davey
Wood
Southernwood
Bibb
Atkins
George
Haughey
Gledhill
Trout
Wildie

We've also got many in the lower leagues, my point is that there's no clear winner in this catagorie.

Quins, Salford, Crusaders, Wakey and Castleford are all at risk IMO.
The decision might be made easier for the RFL if David Hughes does walk away from Quins, but if not, I believe the only way that it won't be either Wakey or Cas is if they agree to share a stadium and get it built now. Salford will tick the expansion box, which is why Quins and Crusaders will get another go as well, so of those 2....one will have to make way for Widnes.
On the other hand....if they do agree to share and get the bloody thing built pronto, then it's a straight 3 way scrap between Crusaders, Salford and Quins.
As I say...if David Hughes walks away, then it will be Quins out and Widnes in.

The only way Quins could survive if DH walks is for SKY to do a Melbourne Storm and buy a controlling share of the club. I actually believe that the ham fisted way that the London SL team has been run over the last 15 years could have been avoided if SKY had owned them from the start.......as the one thing SKY can do that all the previous owners of the London club haven't is MARKET THE F()CKING THING

Does anyone else find it a little depressing that Salford tick an 'expansion' box? For god's sake they've been going for over 100 years and I'm smack in 'RL heartland' and can drive to the Willows in no less than twelve minutes!

I like yourself dont have access to the innerworkings of castleford tigers but i wasnt the one claiming it wouldnt be built, with no evidence, was I?

Our accounts are quite healthy for a super league club, its one of the things the rfl praised last time.

But a team called TEAM SKY RL doesn't sound too marketable

....neither does Harlequins Rugby League apparently

IIRC didn't Atkins come from Bradford and George from Huddersfield?

Quins, Salford, Crusaders, Wakey and Castleford are all at risk IMO.

Throw em all out & Bratfut, Replace them with

Widnes
Fev
Fax
Barrow
Toulouse
& Leigh or Sheff

That would shake everyone up & send the right message to all Championship clubs that if you keep on trying to improve we will not close the shop to you all.

SL phat cats have wallowed in the cream for long enough, give the others a chance.

Difference is Hull and Hull KR actually bring alot to the league, the derby is only one of a few games that could regular attract upto 20,000.

Wrong...what it would do is confirm the MEDIA's belief that RL is a northern sport and given that the MEDIA is all London based, limit the advertising opportunity to buy your council house, conscilidate your loan and rent a pigeion type advertisers.....ie, SKY would bu99er off and you can all go back to watching RL in freezing, derelict stadiums with you and your auntie as the only fans........

Sorry mick....you are obviously a very passionate RL fan and believe your club deserve to be at the top table....but if you think SKY/the RFL will make a decision based on tradition then you need to up your meds......and if you believe that the RFL don't ask SKY for their opinion then the meds are not worth taking.

Mind you....you're right about Bradford

So one game a season?

I would not be surprised to see Cas and Wakey stripped off their franchises with one of them given a guarantee from the RFL that the first one of them to come up with a stadium would get back in next time.


Alternatively i could see the RFL teling them to merge now so that they keep a spot between them with both teams keeping a NL1 place for 3 seasons and then given the opportunity to come back as a single entity team if they meet the criteria in 2015.