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| Thing is though. Their is a French tv broadcast deal in place for Super League. Not sure what it's worth but does it guarantee a French team in the league?
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| Ok, so if we are all sure that IF the 2 "expansion clubs" occupy the bottom 2 spots and are therefore relegated what does this do to the concept of a "European Super League".
This would set the game back almost 20 years and would damage the games credibility and possibly cause irrevocable damage to any future plans of spreading the game outside the M62 corridor.
There really is a catch 22 situation here and if RL is serious about expanding the game, they may need a whole new idea and a move to a more formal franchising arrangement would probably be the right way to achieve this.
Even though we had a long consultation, prior to the announcement of the new structure, there doesn't seem to be too much thought given to how to spread the game.
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| Look.....IF we go down, not that I'm even contemplating it as we will be 9th, but IF.....
The new structure has been cleverly devised to keep the 2nd tier interested. Before the disasterous and indeed laughable "GIVING AWAY" of top flight RL, London were one of the top Tier 2 sides. we competed there for our last three seasons before the BRONCOS/Franchise crap came along.
Therefore we would fairly often be in the middle 8, and well...NO we 'prolly wouldn't finish in the top four, but every year our aim would be a top four finish and try for the Holy Grail of SL1.
If Cats can't handle it, that'd be their problem, I believe London will do ok in the new structure, I actually believe it was designed with us specifically in mind.
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| The quick answer is that in that scenario, yes they'll both go down. This is because there is no RFL conspiracy. They didn't kill Diana, they don't appoint refs to punish some and help others. They don't only cite people from clubs they hate. They don't do any of the absolute fantasy machiavellian things that paranoid fans blather on about to detract from the fact that their chosen club is actually utterly crap.
They DID fake the moon landings but it was a spare weekend.
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| Paris, Sheffield, Gateshead, Wales and now likely London. The game has an incredibly poor record of growth.
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| When are people going to realise that the RFL is being run by clueless twits. They wonder why they cannot get decent sponsors, and then they introduce a P & R system which puts a fragile London club at grave risk of relegation, and puts the whole competition at risk of becoming completely an M62 provincial competition. The problem with the current set up is that there are too many clubs, not that there is licensing. The rational reaction to the lack of competitiveness of the bottom segment of Super League was to drop two M62 clubs, not to drop licensing. But the RFL could not grasp the problem let alone the solution.
Nigel Wood is a village [delidiot[/del accountant with no clue on how to run a business, which is what professional sport is. His Chairman Brian Barwick has proven himself to be a total fraud, without any of the sponsor connections we had been promised by his appointment, and without a single idea on how to rejuvenate the game in the northern hemisphere. Compare Barwick with the former Chairman, Richard Lewis, who improved the game in many ways, including licensing, which provided stability and expansion into France.
More important, compare Wood with the Welsh businessman CEO of the NRL, David Smith. The NRL is rolling in money and Smith is now preparing to contemplate expansion -- within and perhaps even outside Australia.
The NRL has licensing, not P & R. The NRL exists in more than half of Australia and is likely to encompass all of Australia (esp. Perth and eventually Adelaide) in the near future. Its bold move into Melbourne has been a resounding success. It could not have happened without licensing.
We need a fans lobbying group which demand that the RFL maintains crucial expansion clubs in the top tier, and looks to creating more expansion clubs in the top tier.
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| Quote ="JEAN CAPDOUZE"We need a fans lobbying group which demand that the RFL maintains crucial expansion clubs in the top tier, and looks to creating more expansion clubs in the top tier.'"
Well I'd join but the problem you have is the 98% of fans who'd join the rival "Don't expand until every service station on the M62 has a team in superleague" lobbying group.
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| Bottom 2 between Wakefield, Salford and Bradford. You read it here first!
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| Quote ="Roofs"I'm certain if London or Cats are in the bottom two they'll be saved. In the case of London, they'd probably let London go down, and then start a second London club called Harlequins RL in SL next season.'"
No chance. London will finish bottom 2 and they will be relegated.
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| London will be 9th
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"The quick answer is that in that scenario, yes they'll both go down. This is because there is no RFL conspiracy. They didn't kill Diana, they don't appoint refs to punish some and help others. They don't only cite people from clubs they hate. They don't do any of the absolute fantasy machiavellian things that paranoid fans blather on about to detract from the fact that their chosen club is actually utterly crap.
They DID fake the moon landings but it was a spare weekend.'"
I wasn't looking for any conspiracy whatsoever, although I think some change would take place IF these 2 clubs filled the bottom 2 positions.
The scenario is 2 fold with the first point regarding the "no favourites" aspect but, more importantly, should these 2 clubs get relegated it would be bad news for the game in general and it would certainly damage the image that we try to portray of the professional game in England and France.
London are in a horrible state just at present and appear to be clinging on by the ends of their fingernails.
However, Catalan have always been held up as a success story and it would be a disaster for the game if both were to drop from Super League.
On the other issues, you are definitely wrong and they have some serious questions to answer
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| Quote ="CrusaderPete"London will be 9th'"
keeping saying it wont make it happen!
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"keeping saying it wont make it happen!'"
It's ok, he's not counting the top 5
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"No chance. London will finish bottom 2 and they will be relegated.'"
We don't even have our full team in the country with 7 players still waiting for visas. We'll be 11th; or 10th if Bradfold fold.
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| Quote ="Torbreck"We don't even have our full team in the country with 7 players still waiting for visas. We'll be 11th; or 10th if Bradfold fold.'"
How can you have 7 players waiting for visas? does the quota not apply to you?
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"How can you have 7 players waiting for visas? does the quota not apply to you?'"
3 are Kolpak registered.
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| Quote ="Torbreck"3 are Kolpak registered.'"
so? Last i heard it was 5 maximum combined, has this changed?
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| London and Bradford will go down.
Even though the middle 8 is devised to save the rlegated teams, teams from the Champioship are getting closer and closer by the minute.
Whoever finish 1 and 2 in the Champioship this year (eg) Leigh and Fev, they will be well prepared going forward as the rewards are huge financially based on previous seasons.
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| Quote ="Snowy"teams from the Champioship are getting closer and closer by the minute.'"
Really?
What was the worst London SL team in 18 seasons (OFFICIALLY THE WORST) dealt quite easily with the 2 dominant teams in the Championship last year when they met them in the Challenge cup.
Once the top 12 for SL 2015 is known, it will be almost impossible for a championship team with less foreigners and half the cap of the SL bottom 4 to get close to SL. I'm amazed that more championship club fans can't see this?
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| Quote ="gutterfax"Really?
What was the worst London SL team in 18 seasons (OFFICIALLY THE WORST) dealt quite easily with the 2 dominant teams in the Championship last year when they met them in the Challenge cup.
Once the top 12 for SL 2015 is known, it will be almost impossible for a championship team with less foreigners and half the cap of the SL bottom 4 to get close to SL. I'm amazed that more championship club fans can't see this?'"
The top 2 of the championship get 650k and 500k this season.
this is Huge in comparison to previous seasons and will probably result in these 2 teams going FT to compete.
Londons team last season was not too bad in comparisons to this year. All your SL monies will be spent on filling the VOID as sustaining capital on crowds of 1200 is laughable. Both Leigh and Fev will average 2000 easily this year with very little away support and with minimum overheads.
Next season, 6 of the middle 8 will be competative, and it will no foregone conclusion as to who will be promoted.
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| Quote ="Saint Simon"so? Last i heard it was 5 maximum combined, has this changed?'"
It depends on interpretation of the rules but:
Quote ="the rfl"
B1:12A
At the time of notification in any season of the Provisional First Team Squad and First Team Squad and following any amendments during the season, a Club’s First Team Squad, where that Club is in Super League, must consist of:
a maximum of 7 players who satisfy none of the definitions of Club Trained, Federation Trained or are working towards either classification.
a minimum of 7 Club Trained Players or Academy Juniors working towards that classification.
the remainder being made up of Club Trained, Federation Trained Players or Academy Juniors working towards either classification.
B1:12B The following definitions shall apply to Clause B1:12A above:
‘Club Trained Player’: a player who has been on the Club’s register for any 3 full Seasons before the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age to play at Under 21 level. For the avoidance of doubt, from the 2010 Season onwards a player must satisfy the requirement to have been on the Club’s register for 3 full Seasons before being ineligible to play at Under 21 level in order to qualify as a ‘Club Trained Player’ and the fact that he may have qualified as a ‘Club Trained Player’ in the 2008 and/or 2009 Seasons shall be irrelevant.
‘Federation Trained Player’: a player who, for any 3 full Seasons efore the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age to play at Under 21 level has been on one of the Club’s register or the register of another Club being a member of the same rugby league Federation. For the avoidance of doubt if a player moves from one Club’s register to another Club’s register and there is a period of no more than 28 days in the Season (as defined) and any amount of the period between the 1 December and the day of the first League Match, Representative Match or Cup Tie (whichever is sooner) between being removed from one register and being registered with another Club, consecutively shall not be broken for the purposes of this clause. In addition a Club may apply for a Player who has been granted New Talent Pool status by the RSCM (see E1:5.12 below) to be granted Federation Trained status.
‘Academy Junior’: a player who is eligible by age to play at Under 21 level and who is on the Club’s Register.
'"
With only 5 being officially "quota" - I thought the removal of the quota rule was from 2015, but I cannot find reference to it for the life of me, so can only assume it's 7 non-fed (regardless of kolpak or Aussie origin) this season - interestingly, there is no mention in the policy review of how many overseas players a club can have if it fails to achieve 1 of 10 elite academy status (as the only legal way is to require x number club trained and y number fed trained) - it only says it will remain 7 for the 10 clubs.
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| Quote ="Snowy"The top 2 of the championship get 650k and 500k this season.
this is Huge in comparison to previous seasons and will probably result in these 2 teams going FT to compete.'"
Agreed, it is a massive increase, but unfortunately for these teams, as well as London and whomever comes down with us and receive a parachute payment, the 4 teams we will do battle to compete with in the middle 8 in 2015, will be on 1.85 million each and have a bigger cap and have more foreign talent on their books.
Quote ="Snowy"The Londons team last season was not too bad in comparisons to this year. '"
Maybe, but last years was the worst in the history of full seasons in SL and they did see to Sheffield and Fev quite easily.
Quote ="Snowy"The All your SL monies will be spent on filling the VOID as sustaining capital on crowds of 1200 is laughable. '"
Really....are we going down the "crowds" route again? I didn't get to this many posts on here without dealing with the "crowd" issue a few times, but just for you and because it's all new now, the London SL club is now essentially 2 entities. One is the Team, which is bankrolled by the Sky Money and the owners good will, the other part is the business, which is run by a Greek Cypriot who owns the ground and keeps ALL the other revenue. Therefore, London will be at the full Championship cap next year.
Quote ="Snowy"The Both Leigh and Fev will average 2000 easily this year with very little away support and with minimum overheads.'"
I'll type this slowly for you......4 MILLION QUID IS NEEDED TO RUN A FOOT OF THE TABLE SL OUTFIT. 2K crowds ain't going to make a jot of difference to the outcome of the middle 8
Quote ="Snowy"The Next season, 6 of the middle 8 will be competative, and it will no foregone conclusion as to who will be promoted.'"
Next season, I suspect London, Bradford/Wakey, Fev and another Championship heavyweight will square up against Widnes, Bradford/wakey, Castleford and HKR..........Fev and the other championship side along with the 2 fallen SL clubs will have to beat teams with a cap twice the size, with more foreign players and who are all PROPER full time squads.
SL has closed the door again, but this time, the Championship chairman have agreed to it in exchange for the smell of an oily rag.
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| What if Wigan are in the bottom two? Will they be allowed to cheat the salary cap again like last time?
The RFL don't want any of their 'big' clubs going down. Why do some fans still claim we're their no.1 team?
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| Quote ="Pinkerton"What if Wigan are in the bottom two? Will they be allowed to cheat the salary cap again like last time?
The RFL don't want any of their 'big' clubs going down. Why do some fans still claim we're their no.1 team?'"
The teams that finish 13th and 14th this year will be relegated. The only thing that will change that is if a club implodes and goes into liquidation during the season (naming no names here)......no team is too big to be relegated.
luckily for the BIG teams like Wigan, London Broncos exist, therefore halving the chances of a BIG side going down.
For the record, Bradford are no longer considered a BIG team
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Paris, Sheffield, Gateshead, Wales and now likely London. The game has an incredibly poor record of growth.'"
Mmmm, but Paris and the Welsh club were both "created" entities, no previous history or fan base.
London were a small club simply handed the big time.
Sheffield and Gateshead were the victims of "mergers", ironically something those at the top thought SHOULD be the future, instead it was a vehicle that enabled existing clubs to avoid relegation and ended up putting the Eagles back where they'd just come from and nearly destroyed Thunder. Huddersfield and Hull should feel rightly proud of their "merged" clubs!
The Welsh went to grassroots and have achieved some success, building a small core of fans and earning promotion from the 3rd tier, hopefully they can organically grow into a future success, (as London should be allowed to do).
Stop the gerrymandering...IT DOESN'T WORK!
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