Sorry, I shouldn't have said Central London, as Central London is a massive area. Perhaps I should have said residential areas of London - where people would actually have to travel from.

Personally it'd take me an hour and a half from my house to the ground - that's on the same tube line as Waterloo (6 stops away). If I lived in the east end - say Old Street (Shoreditch/ Hoxton / Hackney area) - it'd take 1 hour 20 each way. Old Street too is on the same tube line as Waterloo.

If I lived in Regents Park, it would also take over an hour. Regents Park is on the same side of London as Twickenham.

So it may be quick from Waterloo - but people have to get to Waterloo from their houses - making it a time consuming journey.



So your initial blase comment was wrong then...

I'm sorry, but there are millions and millions of people with very easy access to Twickenham.

They have never really promoted the London team.

They should start small and market to the local area. Worry about greater London later.

I think that's a big point that people miss when slagging-off Harlequins. They just see the London = potential market of 6m people. Not realising how big the place is and how difficult it can be to get across it (unless you're in the central areas).

It seems that people are happy to slag-off Quins for not pulling in people who live 1h+ away yet they don't start calling clubs like Wakefield for failing to pull in supporters from Leicester or Derby.

Maybe when they get their new ground they'll start ramping up the marketing in Derby

Quote ="nathanwood7":3k6ut4mkBBC's Sydney correspondent asks if all 3 winter codes of football can survive in Aus in his latest blog: www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/nickbryant/ I think the most telling comment might be: This sort of opinion confirms to me that increasing the exposure of rugby league will continue to increase its popularity as the product speaks for itself, which makes ventures such as Melbourne and London/Harlequins worthwhile. The more people that can experience the game, the better chance of thriving under the increasing competition from other sports around the world.'" Agree totally. I live in Newport and with Crusaders move here there are a lot who think Crusaders profile and crowds will surpass that of the resident fully professional union team Newport Gwent Dragons. I think it can too but we need to recruit and start now.

Quote ="nathanwood7":3k6ut4mkBBC's Sydney correspondent asks if all 3 winter codes of football can survive in Aus in his latest blog: www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/nickbryant/ I think the most telling comment might be: This sort of opinion confirms to me that increasing the exposure of rugby league will continue to increase its popularity as the product speaks for itself, which makes ventures such as Melbourne and London/Harlequins worthwhile. The more people that can experience the game, the better chance of thriving under the increasing competition from other sports around the world.'" Agree totally. I live in Newport and with Crusaders move here there are a lot who think Crusaders profile and crowds will surpass that of the resident fully professional union team Newport Gwent Dragons. I think it can too but we need to recruit and start now.

True but what would they have put in their SL bid as catchment area ?

They cant have it both ways , not a criticism just an observation as criticism is not allowed

Maybe if they stayed put for more than a few years it would help as well

With regard to the thread title, you'd have been better of replacing 'league' with 'union'.

Melbourne will get the next team but it will be yet another nail in the ARU coffin. The Force where given a $12mill start up grant by teh ARU funded from WC proceeds. Melbourne won;t have that luxury and with the Storm really starting to carve out a market and teh Victory doing so well I can;t see a RU team doing anything other than struggling in Melbourne.

Of the three codes RU is by far the one most under threat. It's only their Int game that is saving them at the moment.

The thread title is a direct copy of the headline on the BBC rugby league homepage today which is linking to the article. I'm not aware if the rugby union homepage has a similar link but from actually reading the article, "Can Rugby Union Survive in Australia" might be a more appropriate headline to summarise the content of the blog.

Quote ="nathanwood7"The thread title is a direct copy of the headline on the BBC rugby league homepage today which is linking to the article. I'm not aware it the rugby union homepage has a similar link'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/default.stm I can see it, down there in the "Comment and analysis" section: [iNick Bryant's blog Will rugby union or another of Australia's winter sports die out?[/i

Quote ="nathanwood7"The thread title is a direct copy of the headline on the BBC rugby league homepage today which is linking to the article. I'm not aware it the rugby union homepage has a similar link'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/default.stm I can see it, down there in the "Comment and analysis" section: [iNick Bryant's blog Will rugby union or another of Australia's winter sports die out?[/i

My mate has recently got back into rugby but with another code - Union. After his first game he told me if Union stays as boring as it is he’ll consider getting back into rugby league.

My cousin who plays Union in Scarborough would rather be playing league but Union is his only choice up they.

To say that Union is dieing is laughable. But its certainly going through some dire straits at the moment if you put all the voices of not liking union together.

This year even the union cheer leading types in Australia AND New Zealand have had two main topics.

The Rugby Union has been boring and major changes are needed.

The Rugby League has been sensational.



I think what you'll see is the Southern Hemisphere nations might start to look at playing a hybrid version of their game at "Super" 14 level to try and get spectators back. Of course this will be just ANOTHER step forward for union as it slowly makes all the changes League made decades ago.


The problem right now is for the ARU, NSW, WA, QLD and the ACT are bleeding money. Their playing stocks are terrible, they are bring players into their test team that Rugby League scouts have turned down multiple times.

On top of this, the NRL and AFL are starting to completely dominate the Australian sporting scene to the point where even Cricket is feeling squeezed out.

Its an interesting time. I do know the ARU will be praying the NRL doesn't expand into Perth any time soon (Which it will!) because that Western Force team of theirs is hanging on by its nails.

Changing your brand from one instantly recognizable to NRL loving Aussies (i.e. London Broncos) to one which is renowned as the quintessential middle/upper class, rah rah, city brand probably wasn't the best move in that regard, though it was clearly done to save the club.

Have a look at some of the Broncos attendances in the past, in particular when they played in the WCC. They've had sporadic 8k, 9k, 10k attendances (against Wigan too) but nothing consistent.

Quins have only managed 8k+ twice, once in their first game as Quins v Saints (intrigue) and once against Wigan (first game of 2008, half the crowd got in for free)

Seriously, how many Aussies in London can really take the Harlequins brand seriously.....foot.....shot.....

On a general level - some great marketing & PR minds have failed to make it work in London, Branson included.

I'd say a 4,263 attendance at the Galpharm for a play off fixture in the town where the sport began, in a county with 100+ times the number of participants is more embarassing than any of the Quins attendances personally....

North London [Barnet to Twickenham 18.9 miles
by
public transport.


5 minute walk to catch
184 to Barnet tube station with a potential to wait 12 minutes for the bus
2 minutes walk to station.
potential to wait 6 minutes for train.
Barnet to Waterloo 41 minutes
Waterloo to Twickenham 30 minutes
10 minute walk to stadium

1h 46mins round trip 3h 32mins

[size=150average speed is 10.6981 mph[/size

yeah real conveniant

[url=http://www.convictcreations.com/football/battlekarl.htmlBattle of the football codes[/url.

Its 20 mins on a train from Waterloo. How easy do you want it to get?

Barnet! Hardly London mate. 20 mins from central London is as good as you will ever get.

From dipping into rugby union stories from time to time I was under the impession that the IRB would always bail out the ARU should it really get itself into the .

Barnet last time i looked was a LONDON borough

On the other hand, most Londoners that aren't super rich live in those sort of places anyway and take in to account that it is the best part of an hour from the suburbs to central London. Having said that, most Londoners I used to work with had never been further than Watford and crossing the river to South London was a trek of explorational proportions.

The other problem is that the main London paper (the Standard) and the local news channels treat Quins like a local non-league football team and leave the coverage to the local local paper, rather than treat the team as representative of the whole of London.

Personally, what really gets people noticing games and looking at the matches that draw the biggest attendances anywhere in the League are derbies. Rather than one club, what London needs is a second half decent SL club .... The cut down Olympic Stadium would be a perfect venue. London Olympic / Skolars could tap in to the North / East market and Quins could be released on the South / Western end of the capital. Hey presto, instant derby game.

It is also worth considering the crowds that the Union attracts in the captial, given that hardly any 'London' teams actually play there. There seems to be little complaint about travel to watch 'London' RU teams in those well-known London suburbs of Watford, Wycome and Reading.

The RFL are slowly applying the same ethos to France with two teams there and it is a shame that there isn't a second team in Wales somewhere (maybe over Swansea way) to get the derbies going there.

Dont give them ideas

Read the thread...

Of course they'll put it in their catchment area. I live in N London & my nearest SL club is Quins so I dont see why I shouldnt be included in their catchment area. What the RFL have to do when analysing what that means is recognise that in a place like Castleford or St Helens or Hull there will be a different proportion of the catchment area that are likely to go through the club's turnstiles than in a city like London.

Sadly I fear that the task of marketing SL in London might be too big in the long run given all the hurdles they've got to overcome like the long journeys (mine is about 90 minutes), other competing events, limited media exposure in the catchment area, & the (for quite a lot of this season at least) not very great atmosphere when you do make the effort to get there.

That being said, I do think Quins could put a lot more effort into the marketing of the club. I got a cheapo ticket to one of their games this season in exchange for giving them my name & address. But they've not made any use of that. I've not received a single bit of marketing through my letter box to try to get me to go again. Mr Blanchard (?) said when he joined the club the priority was to get bums on seats. I agree, but it would be good to see some evidence that there's an effort going into getting that.

1h30 from my place too (Kilburn), hardly a quick trip. After the great Tube (provided it does work which is not granted) you have to walk 15-20min to get there. Great connection to the Tube indeed.

Clearly, the Stoop is not easy to access for most Londoners. Given the average hourly wage in London and the fact that every body is always running, an overall trip of 3h for a rugby match will only motivate the core fans...

As it has been said, don't look for RL coverage in daily local newspapers, it is quasi inexistant.