Says Tony Smith www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41271778 Hard to,disagree with him. The game is slowly dying. No vision in the sport to develop it. It is also a lot less attractive to watch. All players just trying to milk penalties and make the game slow and uninteresting. Rugby Union is getting miles ahead and actually watching Rl is becoming boring. Still as long as HKR are back in SL and crowds will average 5oo more everything is rosy no problem that the game seems to be contracting ( at top flight level). Any positives out there anyone can think of ?

Says Tony Smith www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41271778 Hard to,disagree with him. The game is slowly dying. No vision in the sport to develop it. It is also a lot less attractive to watch. All players just trying to milk penalties and make the game slow and uninteresting. Rugby Union is getting miles ahead and actually watching Rl is becoming boring. Still as long as HKR are back in SL and crowds will average 5oo more everything is rosy no problem that the game seems to be contracting ( at top flight level). Any positives out there anyone can think of ?

He's not sour then? Keep reading how we need expansion and the game is on its knees? For me it's more poor management RU has proper marketing and business men in charge.The Stobart debacle and devaluing of own product was criminal. I still love watching rugby league we have a great game but RU has took coaches and attacking structures from us and improved their product alongside long term planning of international game.Their world cup was very good alongside a great Lions tour. I think we cannot compete with them financially but our actual product is a good one. In my opinion club RU is poor fare at club level. That is our strength. We need a proper sports management team in and a clear professional business plan sharpish because this shower we have are not fit for purpose

Says little really , nothing specific , just randomly fed up with the sound of it

The game has been slowly dying now for the last 5 years, originally the product of the game was its best selling point but were other sports get premier sponsors we get Mushy Peas and Foxy Bingo. Salary Cap no longer competitive for quality players, poor officials conned by players who have been allowed the game to be a running wrestle match for long periods.

Lots of games pretty boring and always stop/start with the video refs prolonging games to nearly 2 hours which goes past the editorials time dead lines so not much in the nationals the next day. SKY not too bothered though.

Explains why he's always so blooming miserable all the time.

The game has been dying since before I was born. I think people just need to get a bloody grip.

Ever since I started watching it I've heard little else other than the game is dying.....if it is, it's taking a long bloody time to do it!

We're at roughly the same number of fans as we had a decade ago and for all the structure changes and attempts at expansion, the core support in the league still comes from the main sides, with everyone else making up the numbers.
The game isn't dying...it's simply stagnating and the guys in charge are adept at making it seem like they're making changes and moving ahead, when in reality they're just rearranging the furniture.....a new look, but same furniture.

The biggest problem OFF THE PARK is the average age of our support. None of us are getting any younger and I suspect the average age at games is about 10 years up on a decade ago....if we want to grow we need to grow our audience and if we do that, then the corporates will follow.

ON THE PARK? We don't have a problem....we just need to figure out how to best market ourselves.......and to do that, the Furniture Re-arrangers need to go!

The game is so slow nowadays with the stop/start from video refs it is becoming unwatchable. Even the most straight forward of tries are being referred to the video ref. Why?
The marketing of the game is truly abysmal. Most of my mates didn't have a clue the Challenge Cup final was on a couple of weeks ago and no doubt it will be the same for the Grand Final. It is such a shame.

Less attractive!

Has he not watched Cas this year?

I'll have a pint of that Tony.

T.B.H. I wish in the forthcoming W.C, the England team would play the same expansive game that Cas have played all year, 'cause as sure as hell, we won't beat the Aussies at their own game.

It's never good is it when a bloke with smith's life in the game is saying what he's saying. But he's too long in the tooth to say it because he's sour about a job.

He wants rugby league to be run by people who have a bit of vision and can get us punching our weight commercially. Not a lot to ask. I'm not a Tony Smith 'fan' but I'd wager the guy's probably got a few decent ideas and the nouse to get it done.

So let him go to Union or wherever. He'll not be the first, or the last. Or... we give him a job. And if not him, find jobs for some of the other decent, intelligent people we've got in the game. Because what is sure to kill us at some point is letting our best people take everything they've given rugby league, and vice versa, somewhere else.

Quote ="Durham Giant"Says Tony Smith www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41271778 Hard to,disagree with him. The game is slowly dying. No vision in the sport to develop it. It is also a lot less attractive to watch. All players just trying to milk penalties and make the game slow and uninteresting. Rugby Union is getting miles ahead and actually watching Rl is becoming boring. Still as long as HKR are back in SL and crowds will average 5oo more everything is rosy no problem that the game seems to be contracting ( at top flight level). Any positives out there anyone can think of ?'" YES we might get in the world cup Final and we might win it I doubt it but we might after reading what smith says he must have bean sacked and to save face they said he has left now he is moaning about Rugby league that has been is bread and butter for so long yes we have problems but wile the shower we have in charge are in charge it will not get any better

Quote ="Durham Giant"Says Tony Smith www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/41271778 Hard to,disagree with him. The game is slowly dying. No vision in the sport to develop it. It is also a lot less attractive to watch. All players just trying to milk penalties and make the game slow and uninteresting. Rugby Union is getting miles ahead and actually watching Rl is becoming boring. Still as long as HKR are back in SL and crowds will average 5oo more everything is rosy no problem that the game seems to be contracting ( at top flight level). Any positives out there anyone can think of ?'" YES we might get in the world cup Final and we might win it I doubt it but we might after reading what smith says he must have bean sacked and to save face they said he has left now he is moaning about Rugby league that has been is bread and butter for so long yes we have problems but wile the shower we have in charge are in charge it will not get any better

Its difficult to put a whole point on saying the game is dying. I totally agree with craighkr about the Stobart joke. It set the whole game back with no monetary input whatsoever and whoever arranged that debacle should have lost their job. The thing for me is look at the quality of the game from say 98-2007. The game for me was so much faster and I really think we had better players playing then than now. Yes the game is more even across the league which is fantastic but for me the end product isnt as good. We can't compete moneywise with the NRL and the longer it goes on the bigger the gap will become

He's not wrong though. We're worse than stagnant, we're shrinking. If Catalans are relegated this year, we'll have the smallest geographical spread we've had since we went fully pro in 1996. In the last ten years, we've lost one of our very few big city clubs with >10k crowds in Bradford. We've lost out presence in the capital. We've lost our abortive Welsh venture. We've even shrunk the number of teams from 14 to 12, for even less variety. Meanwhile, quality on the pitch has taken a hammering with very few 'star' players, as our salary cap becomes further and further detached from the NRL and RU.

Some people will point to what's happening in the lower divisions as more positive. But the bottom line is that all but existing committed RL fans don't even notice the lower divisions, and don't care. Which is why an amazing story like Toronto has gone almost entirely unremarked in the national media. SL is the shop window of our sport, and the engine for everything else. People in the amateur game will tell you how grim it is out there now when it comes to attracting and retaining players - that's in no small part due to the failure of SL to showcase the game, and attract and inspire participation.

The rot began when Nigel Wood took over. Essentially, since then, all decisions about the structure and nature of the game seem to have been taken for the benefit of a handful of uncompetitive small-town clubs who demand a seat at the top table despite generating neither enough support nor enough interest to bring anything to that table:

- The salary cap is held down because those clubs can't reach it even as it is, and so clubs with more resources must let the game's better players go. I'm in favour of a cap to stop clubs spending themselves into bankruptcy, but in real terms, the cap is now so much lower than it was when introduced that it is now actively repelling talent. We are, at best, now a feeder competition for RU and the NRL.

- Promotion and relegation throws the whole lower reaches of the league into chaos as clubs focus on not finishing bottom this year, rather than building for the future. There's every chance that this year the same two clubs who swapped last year will swap again. But even if they don't, what was added to the league this year by swapping Hull KR for Leigh? What will be added next year by swapping Leigh or Widnes for Hull KR? Have those changes benefitted anyone outside those clubs? Did they bring a single extra pound in sponsorship income for the game?

We're in trouble. We are not offering a product enough people watch to attract sponsors, or interesting/exciting enough to inspire young people to play it. We can't keep hold of our shrinking number of better players, and our geographical footprint is contracting, inevitably taking media coverage with it. Meanwhile, we design our entire system to allow a handful of clubs which have never been competitive to bounce between the top of the championship and the bottom of super league, and then we financially cripple those clubs which could do better, to make sure they don't get too far ahead of those who cannot compete. All the while, we have a few clubs who could add excitement, new money, new areas and perhaps an entire new country, to the competition, but we place as many obstacles in their way as possible, because why would we want to attract the whole of bloody Canada, or our own capital city, or a huge new area in France, when we can swap Hull KR for Leigh again next year?

We need licensing back. We need a plan which is based on growing and developing, rather than managing decline. We need to move Nigel on and replace him with someone who can see further than the million pound game. We need to reverse what is in danger of becoming a terminal decline.

The entertainment factor has pretty much gone from the sport, bar the one few games a season that are worth watching.

Intensity seems to have gone out of the derby matches (IMO), decision making taken away from the on field officials (or more scared to make a decision? I don't know), the changes in the rules over the years, the quality of players we are producing/keeping hold of, the lack of money in the game compared to RU or the NRL etc etc etc, are all contributing factors to what Smith says and probably what most fans honestly think about the support.

As has been said by others, the game isn't dying, but it has regressed and become stagnant and plodding along rather than becoming a progressive sport that new fans want to come and get involved in.

When you look at the league over the last 10 years I think the biggest factor is that we are not bringing over the better Aussie/Kiwis anymore, mainly due to the value of the pound to the aussie dollar.

If you look back through the great teams like Saints and Bradford and Wigan and Leeds over the past 20 years they have had a great many superb players.

Now we are stuck with not even the best English players as they play in the NRL, 10 years ago there were none there.

Essentially the SL has become a 2nd division league.

Correct.

The NRL provided more entertainment in one play off weekend than SL has managed all season. It's worrying.

Smith is right. It makes me laugh people missing the point entirely talking about officiating when we talk about major issues in the game. that is way down the list of problems, if it even is a problem (football get lots of controversial reffing decisions but seem to be succeeding!). Teams who are getting good crowds/running academies/expanding the game (i.e Catalans, Hull FC, Leeds, Saints, Toronto, Warrington and Wigan) should be guaranteed a spot in SL, let the rest, who offer far less, battle over the remaining five spots.

I'd also remove, or drastically increase, the cap, so wealthy investors can buy Bradford, Swinton etc safe in the knowledge that they can bring in top players and compete for trophies. In turn, that should put more bums on seats, and help us bring in more money in sponsorship, TV rights etc. If that means Leigh, Wakey, Huddersfield etc regularly get tonked by teams who can afford to sign big names then so be it. The tail has wagged the dog for way too long, with self interested clubs, who offer little in terms of on field success, fans, player production etc, pegging back the success of those who have more to offer, in turn holding back SL.

Who's to say increasing or removing the cap will do anything though? And why would a wealthy investor want to spend any money whatsoever on Bradford or Swinton? If I won the lottery tonight, the last night on my mind would be wasting any of it on buying an RL club, never mind an ailing one.

Look at Salford, and how much the good doctor has ploughed into them. Got great sponsorship deals for them, arguable some of the best players they've ever had, been touted as potential GF winners by Sky and some of the media since he took over - and they are still only getting 1,500 through the turnstiles and into the stadium, including away support. Need to get our heads of the sand and just admit that no one wants to watch the game any more - live or on the TV -
other than the hardcore supporters of each team because it's not entertaining and not attractive enough to bring in new people or new money.

* last thing

The fact the cap stayed the same for best part of 20 years with no increase was one of the biggest factors that the game in the UK is on its death bed. Given inflation the cap should be around £3m now

Regards

King James

Well Koukash and Argyle did it under the current system where we throw as many obstacles as possible at investors, so it's not hard to imagine that there are other potential investors who have been discouraged by how we operate. I certainly think the opportunity should be there for someone to buy a club and throw money at top players to win silverware.

The interest clearly isn't there in Salford unfortunately. They could probably have a World 17 playing there or at Huddersfield and still not average 10k. I wouldn't say the same for other areas though. Bradford for example, got big crowds when they were winning, and I'm willing to believe the same would be the case in Whitehaven, for example, if they had a great team. I agree we need to make it more entertaining and attractive, but for me the way to do that is to give teams the opportunity to buy in top players. I got into the sport to watch Farrell, Dallas and Radlinski; Saints had Long, Cunningham and Sculthorpe; Bradford had Vainikolo, Fielden and Peacock. Their equivalents exist today, but SL teams are unable to attract/retain them due to the cap, so fans end up watching a second rate product, which is naturally less attractive.

The problem with increasing the cap though is that although it allows the clubs to spend more on players and bring in the big names (if they big names want to come and live in Manchester, Leeds, Hull and the like - or rather London, Sydney, Auckland, the south of France to play in the NRL or RU and have a chance of playing for England RU against the All Blacks or go on a Lions tour), they will therefore need to increase revenues from elsewhere, which means asking the supporters to put their hands in their pockets for tickets, merchandise etc, becuase they aren't getting the money in through TV deals or top branded sponsorships etc - unless the RFL start to play hardball with Sky and the other platforms to get them to start giving RL some money.

I'm not sure that sits well with the majority of fence-sitting supporters to make them get off and start getting back to watching the game!

And to cover the point in the interest in/around Salford or Hudds, aren't we just going to end up back in a situation where Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford etc start to dominate again like they were 5-10 years ago if they are the only ones likely to get people through the gate and where the "big name" players want to play?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with some of the things you are saying, just trying to play devils advocate and see if people actually think raising the cap is a long term viable option...

We are at the point now were Super League clubs are unable to match the salaries of 3rd and 4th choice NRL players. The standard of football and intensity of games is certainly worse now than it was 10 years ago.

I have been to about 7 live matches this year in SL, paying about £22 on average for a ticket. Compared with t20 cricket for around the same price or Premier League football for about £10 more, it's dreadful with regards to value for money. I love this sport and always have, so for someone like me to only get to 7 games all season and still feel like I've wasted a lot of that money, how are we supposed to attract new spectators?

I don't know what tony Smith is on about. I've been to 24 out of a possible 29 Cas Tigers games and I've been royally entertained. I've also enjoyed most games on Sky this year.