Stupid question I guess? But why are us RL fans so obsessed with expanding the game far and wide? Were so concerned with pushing the game to Wales, London and now Canada. For me, I'm proud to love a sport that is so strong in Halifax, Batley, Wigan, Hull, Castleford etc. If it doesn't catch on outside of Northern England and Australia then fair enough, we'll keep it to ourselves!

Is there anyone else that feels this way or am I just weird??

To be fair, most Yorkshire folk are similarly insular.

In this case, it's not really an expansion-obsessed RFL doing this. It's the RL-obsessed owner of the Toronto outfit demanding a place in Super League and them saying he has to prove logistical and financial viablity by surviving in the lower leagues, in which a rapid exit would have far less impact on the reputation and commercial footing of the sport in this country.

To be honest if it works, fabulous. If it doesn't, we'll deny all knowledge that it ever existed. You can call how it will go already. Big crowd for opening game in Canada, diminishing crowds thereafter. 'Based in Bradford' whilst in the UK will become 'Based in Bradford' permanently with the only Toronto reference being the name and ultimately all their players becoming overseas player exempt and getting snapped up by Wakefield.



But to be fair if it works, why not? The world would be our oyster then and we could offer franchises to rich RL enthusiasts globally. Are you telling me an away trip for the Fax Blue Sox against Dubai Destroyers wouldn't be appealing? Or an away game at Mallorca Marlins? Or Las Vegas Leviathans? Could bring much needed colour and $$£$£$ to the sport, or not. But why not try?

This is just my point. I feel like the correct answer is yes. But actually, if I really think about it, Im quite happy watching Fax v Braford, Leigh, Dewsbury etc. Clubs with history, support, rivalry.

RL is centred in Batley, Hunslet, Oldham and Leigh as those places had large populations attracted by employment opportunities that came from the Industrial Revolution. Places like Flockton failed to attract the support (numerical and financial) that Dewsbury had.

A hundred years' later, we still have the population there but the places are changing. New towns are attracting the 18-30 year olds. Why shouldn't our business not try to capture this market? Our existing market has reduced over the last 40 years (I 've been there). The pits and mills have gone. Too many locals are on minimal wage zero-hour contracts.

The question I want asking is why can we not move into the big conurbations? We try and fail.
Hull, Leeds ... then token presence in Sheffield. Salford, Oldham and Hornets are not Manchester even if Salford gets close to it. London seems to have failed, Newcastle is still too new to be judged.

The fact that it's a "working class" sport bothers me just as little as that its a Northern sport.

Get your tin hat on asking that on the VT!

I agree that we shouldn't just plop random clubs just for the sake of it. like wales,London etc..

but where I think we need to concentrate and really push for is to add at least one more French team into SL.

The south of France is the only other relative hotbed of RL outside of the heartlands and the RFL need to stop pandering to Batley, Fev etc... who have 100 years to construct a successful club and look to use the Catalan example in large French markets like Toulouse

I'm not anti expansion, I'm just happy with what we have!

I agree with the above post, dont see the South of France an expanding the game, theyve been playing it for years!

Why did we move from steam to diesal to electrification. Steam worked.

Sponsorship, wealthy backing, TV deals etc etc dictates sport these days. The wider the audience .......

The world moves on and is ever changing. Union and other threats will strangle the sport and kill it off

Because ultimately, professional sport is increasingly commercial and if we are going to continue to improve standards, improve stadia, retain our best players and improve the coaching and facilities that will provide new ones, the sport needs to generate revenue. If it doesn't, it stagnates at best, and withers and dies at worst - at least in a professional form.

More of that revenue needs to come from the commercial sector and, like it or not, places like Batley, Castleford and Whitehaven are not the sort of places that have enormous commercial appeal to many, many organisations out there.

I have no issue with having clubs in those places, and you're absolutely right that they have a very important role to play, but we can't carry on keeping what we call "the greatest game" to ourselves. There are valuable audiences out there that, not only do we want our clubs to be attracting, but the companies that we want to support our game want to be selling products to and broadcasters want to be selling subscriptions to.

This isn't about 'expansion for expansion sake' - any effort to grow the sport has to be done carefully, has to be strategically planned and has to be fully supported - but this is about making the sport more commercially appealing and attracting new audiences. Sorry to break it to you, but London and Toronto are much more commercially attractive than Featherstone and Rochdale.

The heartlands clubs have had long enough to demonstrate that they can grow the sport. A few exceptions aside, they've shown that they can't. The existing clubs in the game aren't keeping pace with the commercial revenue in other sports, the clubs in the game aren't growing attendances at a particularly remarkable rate and central funding isn't keeping pace with our key competitors. I fail to see how not expanding our appeal beyond the M62 changes that.

There's been a lot of guff on here since the Toronto announcement so I'll try and answer your question fairly.

There are two main reasons I want to see our sport expand and grow.

The first is I want a genuinely competitive international game, the only way to do this is to expand player pools and give more players opportunities to play at a higher level. Now we could suggest that a SL club pick up a Canadian kid, but the kids aren't even playing rugby league because it has no presence there. A club will change this. (Just using Canda as an example btw same could go for a million other places).

My second reason is because I truly believe if we don't push forward, the sport will die on its feet. Some of the great clubs of the past which you speak of simply don't want to or cannot grow to a level where it is worth them being in the top league. Take featherstone as an example it's not their fault that geographically they are never going to attract big crowds when competing with a handful of other clubs in the immediate area.
If an expansion club can feasibly attract a decent crowd at home, are financially stable and looking to compete, while also giving access to new punters, players and other revenue steams then they deserve a chance to grow and do this. Hell a lot of Super League clubs haven't even managed what I've just listed over the last 10+ years.

I'd add that I am not just advocating we throw a dart into a world map and see if it sticks. I like the Toronto idea because there is a clear vision and good set of people behind it and opens a completely new market. I'd like to see us look at Sheffield and Cumbria because it would allow a pathway to two new areas whilst staying within somewhere where we have a presence. But I don't think neither of the clubs in Cumbria or Sheffield have the infrastructure robe a sound option. Similarly Wales and London have produced a great deal of SL players but would need the right people behind the scenes to be financially viable.

Finally I've got nothing against the clubs you mentioned as liking, I miss going to Odsal and and am looking forward to Catalan trying to climb mount pleasant in the cup, and great many good SL players have cut their teeth in the Championship, but their are a great many of these clubs I wouldn't see the point of in SL.

The more I think about it the more I wish we'd stuck with liscencing and done it properly.

None of the places it is played and loved in this country has any kind if cultural relevance whatsoever. Even within this region, never mind nationally or internationally. Expansion beyond this region helps.

Sydney does. Success in Australia, and many of the places within its sphere of influence.

T'ronto does too. Not in the same way, because North America is full of cities on that scale. But nationally within Canada it definitely does.

I am also happy with what I have. Even post relegation. I love the history, I love the culture but more than any of that I love the game. Reliance on us, because of who and where we are, will not save it.

thats fine.

But oddly it was more fans of the Fax's, Leigh's and Dewsbury's who were vehemently against a structure where those smaller clubs played each other and other clubs elsewhere were the place the newer clubs from bigger cities would join.

It was far more the fans of the Leigh's, Fax's and Dewsburys who demanded that a club like Toronto go through their leagues.

Fully agreed Wildthing, it's very brave of Halifax1989 to do so !

I did brace myself!

.

Adapt or die.

Yep. And what many people appear to forget is that we almost did die thanks to our backward, short-termist attitudes.
We're still recovering from that period in our sports history.
Sadly I still regularly see those same attitudes at all levels of RL.

or



?

Tough choice.

The pictures say it all.

If you want to start something good, don't waste time with old ideas. Go to new places, with different thinking/perspectives, start winning and attracting winners and then bring it home. Moving at the pace of the old Clubs / towns which have lost their meaning is a sure way to die.

What better for our boys to aspire to. Overseas games - new culture. Stuck in the mud - no way, Jose.

As a small positive, how great for opposing players to get to travel to Canada? If I were a part time player I'd jump at the chance.

But but but how will they get the time off work?!?! They have families dammit!!

Which is the reason we need to grow. We can no longer depend on part-time players but obtain the financial backing for 20+ full-time teams. Which is why I ask about the bigger settlements. Getting into Manchester or Birmingham is a catch-22 issue: we need the interest/support for a local team and the local successful team at the same time!
Some experiments I'd walk away from (e.g. mid-Lancashire/Chorley/etc.). Oxford and Coventry (and Gloucester as well) need nurturing.

Agree with this. I think Birmingham would be a struggle especially as we have little to no presence there. I think we should target Manchester and Newcastle using Salford and Newcastle(Gateshead) Thunder as the basis to start from. I'd like to see internationals held in both those cities with lots of RFL promotion tied in to try and get people to both give RL a try at amateur level and to go down to either Salford or Newcastle. And then do that consistently along with other things like Magic Weekend obviously, the RFL to promote big games for these teams in the cities a couple of times a year etc. But crucially we can't just do it once or twice and then just hope. It has to be consistent investment of time and effort into the areas.

Not wishing to be too pedantic but, there is already 1 major event in Manchester every year and magic weekend is on it's second year in Newcastle (both should be helpful in generating some local interest.
A lot of this is down to the quality of marketing and exposure that are given to the events and perhaps this is the area that needs to improve to give the sport a helping hand.

Not read all the posts but im not convinced rugby league, especially in the UK has the best people in charge when it comes to marketing or spreading the word or if they have anyone for this.

Rugby League could be huge in any country. Its the best sport in the world.
there should be a huge push to get it recognised in the US.

someone in the US owned a bar and watched rugby games and couldnt tell why she really enjoyed some games and hated others.
because like most americans, and some english dont know the difference between league and union.
once i explained, she agreed, even having played football that rugby league is the best sport.
USA is crying out for rugby league.

I also agree that expanding slowly from the current hotbed is important where rugby league is already prevalent but you only have to look at Catalan to see how expansion can work in this way.
London could get a better following if they where situated in the right place, and not in the middle of nowhere where noone can get to.
i think the change in format of playoffs has been a positive change for growth.

Also the rfl should be giving tickets away for every event that is televised to school children. College students, anyone that might be exposed and turned into fans, and to have every game to capacity.
mainly talking about magic weekends, and internationals that may not fill a stadium