said no one in Widnes ever



great to see a club took that period serious and have built from it, even last season there was a couple of results they lost by 2 points and in they managed to see them out they would have been in the play offs last season.

any way well done Widnes.

Franchising doesn't work. Millionaires with patience and smarts running rugby clubs does work.

They would have been relegated, there is no patience with promotion and relegation. some people have short memories jesus.

Jesus has never typed anything on here.
'Short Memories'...Championship used to be 4 up, 4 down. Imagine that, you'd be suicidal !

I know.....I've restricted his posting rights until he gets his homeworks done

Obviously it would be much better for clubs like Widnes to be relegated and lose all their assets every two years.

if a team such as widnes (or anyone for that matter) next year can't finish in the top 4 of 8 clubs consisting of the worst 4 SL clubs and 4 championship clubs then quite frankly they don't deserve to be in SL. Simple as... people really need to get over this

relegation was STILL on the table during franchising. what do you honestly think would of happened to a club had it been thrown into the wilderness for 3 whole years?? would they have kept their assets then? At least this way with improved funding to the championship they can keep a full time team, just on less money

Well I am happy as worked for Widnes, and we would have been relegated if relegation first season.We have slowly built a squad, and brought youth in too.We will be close to the top 8 this year.

Franchising works......it all depends on who's driving it.

Since SL 1 we've had 12 Teams, then 14 teams, then 12 teams again, then 14 again, no play-offs, top 5 play-offs, top 6 Play-offs and 8 team play-offs. A Club immune from relegation, clubs saved from going down on technicalities, clubs go into administration, clubs go into administration more then once, loans, cash advances, lease purchases, clubs created, clubs dissolved and only 4 teams that have won 18 competitions from a total of 21 clubs who have taken part.

Now, in the 19th year we have 2 down to be followed in 2015 with a circus that will require a team on half the salary cap with 20% of the overseas talent quota to beat a SL outfit TWICE to stand a chance of being promoted. This will make the top 6 even more ELITE in the UK, with the bottom half of SL never confident enough to rely on their own young talent, but who will instead, as they did before Licencing, look to overseas imports to keep them up!

In the Licencing era, Wakey went tits up due to the now not required search for a new stadium and spending money applying to the wreck they currently use, whilst bad management at Bradford has caused their woes. Both clubs would have wobbled, regardless of there being P&R or not.

Crusaders was entirely of the RFL's own making.......it was PSG but worse, because they spent the games money doing it.

In the same timescales that I have laid out above, the NRL has gone from being a moderately supported, but by no means wealthy game in Australia to a 200 million a year TV deal, 200 million a year in other income, record breaking, sponsorship attracting business with healthy and viable expansion club in enemy territory.........

....sorry, but the fate of the 2 competitions since 1996 are like chalk and cheese......as much as it pains me to say it, the Aussies have shown the way it needs to be done and P&R or some convoluted 12/12-8/8/8 system from Switzerland isn't it!

The RFL (and this goes for a great many RL supporters too) have the attention span of a gnat and the patience of a 2 year old!

They would never have been promoted

Very true.



Difference is, that once they were promoted this time, they had the luxury of 3 years to build, with another 3 years after that.
The problem you have now is that let's say, Fev manage to win the million dollar game in 2015 and go up, they will have 3 months to assemble a squad capable of staying up, which will involve at least 4 more foreigners than they would have been allowed in 2015. The extra million quid in funding will also have to go towards conditioners, coaching staff, a trip to France etc......London Broncos first team costs in 2012 including wages, travel, accommodation, Insurance, medical treatments etc but EXCLUDING coaching wages was £2,674,000......if Fev were to go up, the chances are that trying to stay there would result in them being bankrupt within 15 months of winning promotion!

GF, Fev' have been in the top flight before and didn't go bankrupt then, so why should they now?

Hunslet and Bramley have been in the top flight before, let's promote them too.

They paid their players 2/10ths of all then........welcome to reality!

When fev were last in the top flight their players were on a decent wage........3 times that of your average miner....nowadays apart from a few stars, Argos pays as well

Any system can work depending on who is driving the clubs in that system. There's examples of successes from both.

There are also examples of failures from both.

Let's just leave it at that, eh? It feels like déjà vu!

you have completely missed the point.

just proves my point even more.

Any system can work, providing the money is there to make it work, but bottom line is RL doesnt have it

At SL s inception the ' vision ' was big City Clubs in the ' Super Rugby ' ' NFL ' mould , with fans ripping up old aliegances and rivalries and supporting new mega clubs , by now it might have worked but a lot of fans would have walked away, that was the risk

So instead 6 years ago we had a poor attempt at introducing it, always doomed to fail, you cannot set minimum standards and criteria, the ignore them, your credibility goes straight out of the window

So now we are going to have something quite radical, that has been dumped or failed in other sports, but That doesnt mean it cant or wont work for us, ultimatly it is still down to individual clubs and how they perform OFF field that will decide how successful they are, not where they are located

Widnes are a positive of franchising. Bradford x2, Wakefield, Crusaders are an argument why it doesn't work.

Are they?

Bradford are a failure or management and governance.

Would Wakefield have been in any better position if under threat from relegation?

Would we have two thriving semi-pro sides in Wales if not for the leg up Crusaders gave the game there?

In 2009, Crusaders finished bottom, in 2010 they finished in the playoffs
In 2010 Les Catalans finished bottom in 2011 they finished in the play-offs,
In 2011 Crusaders finished bottom again and were relegated.
In 2012 Widnes finished bottom.
In 2013 Salford finished bottom.

Would any of those clubs have been better placed, would the game have been in any better position if those clubs had been relegated? Franchising was working.

I wouldn't say that there's any evidence to suggest that the reason these clubs went belly up is because of franchising, as opposed to the way the club was run.

unfortunately we need a safe enviroment to bring young players into the game at the top level, will clubs in fear of relegation take the time needed to integrate them into their team......probably not.

P & R is a backward step along with increasing the non-fed quota........

I would like to see any player under 21 not count on salary cap and under 23 only 50% of salary to count encourage teams who can afford it to go out and bring the young players through

Broncos would be bankrupt (again) within 6 month in the championship

Championship teams have been running on a shoestring for years. They have learnt to keep their house in order and had to find other ways of generating income. Unlike a lot of super league teams who have been lazy, just relying on SL handouts and Rich backers.

Fev already have full time conditioners, some players and coaching staff. Come 2015 the whole team will be full time. They are signing young quality players who can make the step up. If they were to win the Million quid game they may have had 3 seasons full time by then. they wouldn't need to go hell for leather trying to build team in 3 months within this new structure. They only need to build a team capable of remaining in super league via the second group of 8 not the top 8 of SL. While taking the cash each year and building gradually.

Unlike super league teams who are used to the SL income and some mainly reliant on it. Im sure some Championship teams would cope pretty well with the extra sky money and increase in match day income without going bankrupt in 15 months.

Brilliant, so we have a season where Fev's only aim is to win 5 of the last 8 games, and the rest are irrelevant, thats what will get the sponsors interested and fans through the door.

22 game pre-season and 8 game season.

Its funny how easy championship fans think the step up will be. That all they need is a little extra money and they will be a competitive mid-lower SL side. When in reality we already know what a championship squad with a little extra money and a few extra players looks like. Leigh put 5 points on the board. Halifax ended with 0.