This is looking like the most likely scenario -- not certain, just most probable -- now that Sonny Bill Williams is in the New Zealand team.

England will have to play at its best to avoid this scenario, and even its best may not be enough.

Does Sonny Bill Williams' presence in the New Zealand team make this clash more attractive for you?

He has been erratic all season in the NRL so no need to poop trousers
Why would 60000 tickets already be sold if folk weren't intending to show?
I can see sold out signs going up straight after the Cons are despatched after Cardiff

Yes. Already have my ticket which I have had since February

Silly question if already have a ticket. Biggest game in this country for at least 13 years. Would love england to be in it but if its Aus v NZ (or whoever if a massive shock happens) I will still enjoy the experiance of being at a World Cup final

Ticket already bought but yes, the NZ v Aus semi in 95 was a great game, the sides are a lot more evenly matched this time round.

Having coughed up for a ticket and a space in one of Man U's secure stewarded car parks the only things that would stop me going would be illness and flooding blocking the roads between mid-Wales and Manchester (not such a remote possibility as you might think!).

think any RL fan would want to attend a world cup final regardless who was in it.....might even wear my "Beany Hat" that I received last December when i ordered the tickets for the final, semis and opening double header.

since then I have bought tickets each month when money available for another 9 games as well....

How has been erratic? He has been a model of consistency. His form has bordered on ridiculous for a lot of the season.

Already got my ticket. £60 seat for £30 me by plenty.

NZs test record with SBW in the side is very poor, NZs test record in the UK is very poor. I see no reason why England aren't second favourites for the tournament as it stands.

Only bought my tickets yesterday so I shall be attending regardless, I hope England get there but it should be a cracker anyway. I hope it's well attended.

If I was still living in the UK, absolutely yes. Still remember the 2000 final at Old Trafford. Richie Barnett Snr played fullback for NZ and was a class above IMO. Couldn't believe it when he signed for Hull a couple of years later.

Why would anyone buy a ticket to see SBW? Whether he plays or not, the attendance will still be the same - he's not what you think he is, to turn an attendance of c. 20k into 30k+

I won't be attending if England reach the final.

I wan't to see a competitive final where the result is in doubt.

That can only be the case if it's an Australia V New Zealand final.

This thread has taught us two things. One, Jean has a huge man crush on SBW and two, that William has jumped the shark and his best days are behind him

If england get there i get to see them in a world cup final.if NZ play then it should be a great game so its win win.

Just an aside,but there is still a fair chance it could be England v NZ final.we may catch the Aussies cold in wales and stun them as we have done in game one down the years only to be brought back to earth with a thud.if we do then NZ could easily take them out in the semis.To me,this presents our only realistic scenario,although a long shot,at winning the thing.

I like you way of thinking and i agree that would give us our best shot at winning. If it was Eng v Aus in the final I still think with a full house and the emotions running high we could sneak it. I know small possibility but who knows. Upsets happen in finals

This is the perfect scenario for me, for some reason the Kiwi's have cast aside their inferiority complex regarding the Australian's whereas we haven't yet. It is very possible that the Kiwi's could beat the Aussies in a semi and we beat them in the final

Very frustrating that people are talking as if all the Kangaroos have to do is turn up to win it when they couldn't even win it on home soil last time

England need to beat Australia when it really matters in order to establish some international credibility.

Hoping for a turn of events in a semi final which is outside of England's control in order to establish an easier path to winning the World Cup is loser talk.

We are discussing England beating Australia to top group A and essentially set up an Australia vs. New Zealand semi bar a major upset. Which actually means we would have beaten Australia and the events were inside England's control

You really should think things through before you post

Still means England failing to beat Australia when it really matters whilst hoping another team outside of their control does it for them instead.

I'm pretty sure that England beating Australia to top the group and then the World Cup holders in the final of this years tournament would be just about enough for international credibility

As for loser talk, well if I didn't have many many more important things to do I could dig up a few dozen posts showcasing your fawning of all things Australian but we can all remember those

But it would mean England had beaten them when it matters very much.i was mearly pointing out that first game is huge.The kiwis are bringing a very good squad,are world champs and very capable of winning the comp again.if the aussies were to lose to us then NZ they wouldnt deserve to be in the final simple as.not England's fault if OZ fail! A lot rides on that first game,i dont think either side will fancy playing NZ in a semi after they have built momentum.

Last time that happened was during the pre-SL era (1995) when the national side along with international RL had way more credibility and a much higher media profile.

The game in this country has gone backwards since then at an alarming rate.

Whilst i agree that the media profile was higher in 95,there was 41k for that first game at wembley and 66k for the final.both those figures could well be beaten this time around.