Nigel Vagana Quote "Right now, footballers who make themselves eligible for Australia can earn around $20,000 extra a year playing Origin footy. And there's talk of that rising to $50,000." "But if they stick with New Zealand, it's nothing. Zero. So while Origin footy is supposed to be all about passion, for a lot of (Polynesian) players it's being seen as a sound business decision, a way to better provide for their families. It threatens the future of international footy'" He has a good point, it must be hard for someone from New Zealand, Samoa, Tonga, PNG etc or even the UK, to choose to represent their home country over Aus, when they could be wiping tens of thousands of $'s off their salary by not being allowed to play origin for it. The simple answer would be to allow players to represent other countries, but play origin if the have lived in QLD/NSW for 3 years or something. Im struggling to see an argument against this? Why wont they let it happen? It would make the origin games even better than they currently are as it would be the best players in the world not just the best players available for Aus. Quote Vagana is also pushing for the establishment of a two-tier structure that would allow Test players from Australia, New Zealand and England (all Tier One nations) to represent emerging countries if not selected for their first choice. '" Also an interesting point, it would make the smaller nations stronger. Brough to play for Scotland if not selected for England, the same with Wigans Irish hooker etc www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 6381407957

Nigel Vagana Quote "Right now, footballers who make themselves eligible for Australia can earn around $20,000 extra a year playing Origin footy. And there's talk of that rising to $50,000." "But if they stick with New Zealand, it's nothing. Zero. So while Origin footy is supposed to be all about passion, for a lot of (Polynesian) players it's being seen as a sound business decision, a way to better provide for their families. It threatens the future of international footy'" He has a good point, it must be hard for someone from New Zealand, Samoa, Tonga, PNG etc or even the UK, to choose to represent their home country over Aus, when they could be wiping tens of thousands of $'s off their salary by not being allowed to play origin for it. The simple answer would be to allow players to represent other countries, but play origin if the have lived in QLD/NSW for 3 years or something. Im struggling to see an argument against this? Why wont they let it happen? It would make the origin games even better than they currently are as it would be the best players in the world not just the best players available for Aus. Quote Vagana is also pushing for the establishment of a two-tier structure that would allow Test players from Australia, New Zealand and England (all Tier One nations) to represent emerging countries if not selected for their first choice. '" Also an interesting point, it would make the smaller nations stronger. Brough to play for Scotland if not selected for England, the same with Wigans Irish hooker etc www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 6381407957

i've been saying that players in australia should be allowed to play for QLD/NSW & tonga,fiji,pgn,samoa etc for years..


the reason this won't ever happen is because 60-70% of the kids in the under 20's have pacific/islander heritage and by allowing them to play origin and for a island nation it would dramatically impact the talent pool the kangaroos have to select from......


another factor is the fact that the pacific island nations don't play internationals....you can count the number of competitive internationals fiji,tonga & samoa have played since the 2008 world cup on ONE HAND....wales,scotland & ireland by comparison play more competitive games each season than the pacific islander will have managed in 5 years..


as for vagana's comment...what a clown....there should be a 1 tier structure & 1nation for life

The tier one situation used to exist here to a certain extent with tier one being GB and tier two being the home nations, but I can't see how that could be implemented between the Aussies and islanders.

Allowing other nationalities to play Origin would defeat the original premise of it being a Test trial, even if that doesn't exactly seem number one priority any more.

There was an article last week claiming origin is even killing the NRL

Maybe they should come to some sort of compromise, like allow each state to play 3 or 4 players who arent eligible for Aus

No they shouldn't, Nz starting their own origin will help.

Point 1 - He's right. Origin is killing international RL over there. Possible solution would need to be to get the other nations involved in their own 3-match series so they can keep their players. We've got our international origin series over here that does a trick. Why not NZ vs the Pacific Isles 3 test series at the same time as origin? Build it up. Play it in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch. It will build the Kiwi brand as well as give the PI nations' players a cash boost that may keep them from playing for Austin or NZ.

Point 2 - I think the two tier system is a better idea than the perennial nation switching situation that we have now. However, there needs to be a better descriptor for who are tier 1 and who are tier 2, and how you can go from tier 2 to tier 1, rather than just picking some nations because of history and tradition.

I don't understand why players can't play for one state and another nation that isn't Australia.

I think i'm right in saying Jarryd Hayne's dad is from Fiji and his mum is from NSW. So Hayne is a Fijian AND a New South Welshman. So why can't he represent both?

Fiji could effectively play Hayne, Uate, Civoniceva and Tuqiri but don't mainly because
A) they don't play that often but even it they did because of
B) State of Origin rules.

Been saying this for ages. Apparently Sam Burgess is now eligible to declare dual nationality and play in Origin for NSW next season but has declined to do so because it would make him ineligible for England. If the money keeps getting upped though he could eventually be tempted, although I'm not sure how well a pommie playing Origin would go down in Oz, regardless of how good he is

If you want to play origin you play for Australia, it's a Australian trial game!

Maybe so but the problem is you dont have to be Australian to play Origin. Australia cherry-pick the best talent from the South Sea Islands by dangling the Origin carrot, which weakens the international game as a whole. That's Vagana's point. Although to be fair Vagana did play for New Zealand despite being from Samoa so it's a little rich coming from him!

No it isn't.

Origin has never been a trial game or series to determine who is selected for Australia.

Where did the concept come from?

Danila Anderson has spoken/writen about the ins and out of teh tier structure, could offer International RL a real shot in the arm. Especially between World Cups.

What are you on about? Aside from uate, who should still be playing for Fiji and not for nsw/Australia (despite the fact he had never played rugby league before emigrating to aus), who have Australia cherry picked from the south sea islands. Every single national team has players born and/or raised in Australia, yet Australia weakens international rugby league? How does that work?

It's very rich coming from vagana considering that NZ are the worst nation when it comes to "cherry picking" other nations players. The most recent player is a young kid from the warriors in Konrad hurrell who is going to be a superstar. He moved from tonga to NZ 3 years ago on a rugby union scholarship before taking up rugby league and has already stated he wants to play for the kiwis. NZ are the biggest hypocrits of all!

All that needs to happen is a fairer schedule of meaningful test matches and rep games for all nations both mid year and post season and a one country for life rule and we are well on our way to reaching our potential as an international sport. Vaganas two tier system is ridiculous and will ensure that these national teams are packed full of players who would drop them for aus or NZ as soon as they are good enough. Players must commit to the nation, not play when they don't make their first choice. Leave origin to Australians as it is, other countries should be giving players with dual nationality the choice to make the decision and stick to it!

Uate aside, the other 3 players are Australian, they are playing for their state and their country. The arl have every right to ensure australian players make up their state teams! What they shouldnt have the right to do is pick players who play for other countries if they choose to have that rule! They also shouldn't be allowed to stop other countries from holding their own rep series or test series when origin is on. This is where Australia holds the game back, not by taking stealing other countries players which in the most part is a lie!

Agree with this. Are England stealing Brough? Or has he just played for another country he is eligible for whilst waiting for his chance to play for his country of birth? I think the latter, and it's the same for the vast majority of Australian players that people consider "stolen" from the Pacific Island nations. They're just taking advantage of the international rules until their chance comes for THEIR home nations. If you take that rule away, I think you'll find that they won't play for those other nations at all (and not "stop Aus stealing players from other test nations, thus making the others stronger" like many seem to believe, if only it were that simple!).

I think New Zealand vs the Pacific Islands would go a long way in giving players of the smaller island nations (who don't play all that often) a big stage to play on 3 times a year. That is what they are after, and that is why they choose their home nation over their nation of heritage.

Didn't Adrian Lam play for Queensland and PNG?

Yes he did. As has Neville Costigan. Rules only bent to suit the Aussies!

I agree with all of the first part of this. If they didn't have the chance to play for England, would Bridge or McIllorum have played for Ireland? Or Brough for Scotland? No chance, but Ireland and Scotland will have benefited from them playing, as will their younger players.

The rules weren't bent to suit the Aussies at all. They were bent to suit png. Costigan has always wanted to play for Australia, he has never really identified with his png heritage. He played for them at the world cup as it wouldn't affect his chances of possibly playing for qld and aus in the future. I have spoken to him about this personally as one of my good mates played for png in the rlwc. IMO, once he made the decision to play for png he should be eligible for noone else but hey, this is rugby league!

Lam moved to Australia as a small child, and as an exception was allowed to play for png and qld during the super league era. He was an exception to the rule at a time when rugby league was struggling, but yes it is a joke that he was allowed to do so.

Whats the difference between Uate and Tuquiri?

Two things,

firstly, if this was say the USA, getting a rich backer and paying $50k a man to heritage players in the NRL to switch eligibility to the US, we would be up in arms about how wrong it was. I cant really see what the difference there would be to this. Rep payments should be paid by the RLIF and be uniform.

secondly, this would be much less of a problem if pac island nations actually played top tier internationals regularly.

It is a big shame that there are not more internationals for the Pacific Island nations.

Look at who Fiji could select:

FB: Lote Tuqiri (Wests Tigers)

3/4: Akuila Uate (Newcastle), Wes Naiqama (Newcastle), Darrel Millard (Catalans), Ratu Peni Tagive (Sydney Roosters)/ Sisa Waqa (Melbourne)

5/8 Jarryd Hayne (Parramatta)

2R: Tariq Sims (Nth Queensland)

PR: Petero Civinoceva (Brisbane), Ashton Sims (Nth Queensland)


No wonder Fiji came 4th in the 2008 World Cup (without Tuqiri and Civinoceva).

But then you're getting into rather risky territory there mate. It'd be like saying that because Ben Jones-Bishop is mixed race he should be representing Jamaica and not England. We could do pretty much the same thing for Jamaica and say, look how good Jamaica could be if they could pick all these players. I say that because most the Fijians you named are actually Australians.

Tariq Sims and Ashton Sims are born and raised Australians. Daryl Millard is a born and raised Australian. Ratu Peni Tagive is born and raised Australian. Wes Naiqama is born and raised Australian. Jarryd Hayne is born and raised Australian.

Petero Civinoceva has lived in Australia since before his first birthday, he's as Australian as any.

Lote Tuqiri is on the fringe, he moved to Australia at 15. Sisa Waqa and Uate are also what I'd call fringe for the same reason.

Out of all the players you named only Tuqiri, Waqa and Uate are questionable, and if you've met Tuqiri I wouldn't say it's questionable at all, he's an out and out Australian by any measure other than birth.

it would be great if Fiji could select all these people but only if they want to represent Fiji, I don't buy that Australia are just going out and taking talent from the Pacific Island nations. It'd be a bit like saying "look at all the talent England is stealing from Ireland" on the basis of a couple of players with Irish heritage or birth