There's been talk recently that it might be a good idea to cut SL back to 12 or even down to 10 teams. But it isn't always explained why people want it.

Is it to divide the TV money between fewer recipients, increasing there financial stability of the surviving clubs? The Hull KR chairman has on occasion talked about it in these terms.

Is it, conversely, to reduce fixtures and reduce the physical strain on players? But that would presumably be at a cost, financially, through reduced gate receipts and possibly TV money. Is that where Jamie Peacock is coming from? There are also ways of cutting games without reducing the number of clubs.

Maybe fewer games would be more intense, and draw in bigger crowds mitigating the financial loss - Tony Smith has suggested that. I'm dubious, but even if he's right, more intense play will undo much of the good of playing a handful fewer games, I'd assume.

Fewer makeweight teams is another argument, when there are blow-out score-lines. That there isn't enough talent to go around. But fewer teams means fewer chances for young homegrown players, and the RFL has gone to considerable lengths to convince us that the players are out there, if clubs are willing to give them a shot.

I can see logical arguments - but they contradict rather than reinforce each other.

Are you in favour of cutting the size of SL, and if so why?

No I'm not in favour. I understand the arguments for it but I don't think the financial issues can be resolved without playing at least some clubs 3 times, which I don't like the idea of.
I also think 14 teams is a good size for a serious professional league. Much smaller and it's basically a mini-league.

I think the RFL should come out and say the league will be fixed at 14 teams for the next 5 (or so) licence periods, then everyone knows where they stand.

In my opinion stick at 14 and concentrate on improving the worst performing clubs.

I don't quite understand this argument, less clubs = less games = less TV games. Why would Sky pay the same money for less? It the same as gate receipts, there will be less cash in the door and so less money to go around.

If there's an argument for players to play less games, address this through squad rotation, OK this may give a cap issue or it may mean some younger players get the chance to play more.

There would still only be 2 Sky games on a weekend though, so that wouldnt be an issue. Also if the league was reduced, and replaced with an extended WCC or Exiles series etc then im sure Sky would be showing these games as well as/instead of.

Also gate receits wouldnt fall, it would be the number of games that was reduced.

The ONLY reason for reducing the number of teams in SL is to give the Lucky 10 clubs more money.
Smaller leagues have been tried in different sports (and the national leagues) and they dont work, due to quick repetition of fixtures.
12 clubs as a top division was just about ok, but this is the lowest sensible figure.
The greed of some of the big clubs really hacks me off.
Have to agree with "Him" that the RFL should tell us their plan for the short, medium and long term and not just make it up as we go.

Fewer games, means less through the turnstiles over the course of the season if average crowds are the same. People won't pay the same for a 11 game season pass, as they do for a 13 game one.

I think TV revenue would hold up okay - they're happy with a couple of games a week whether it is 2 from 7, 6 or 5.

I can see an argument for 12, but 10 just seems stupid. I'd much rather go up to 16 than down to 10 - cutting the salary cap (per club) if necessary.

Dont think we should be cutting the cap, it actually needs to be increasing year on year, but teams settling for a lower share of TV money (or negotiating a better TV deal) is an option.
This obviously flies in the face of what the big boys want, so it wont be popular.
There is of course the issue of keeping hold of the best league players, especially from the yawnion lot and this is perhaps why certain clubs would like a larger slice of the cake, although there is extra cash in the s/c for international players.

The ' rationale ' is that the clubs at the bottom are not getting any better , it was hoped that when everybody is in a nice shiney new stadium [ apart from Leeds and Bradford , who will remain where they are in relative squalor



as that is what was promised in 2008 that SL will morph into a European NRL/NFL where different clubs will rise and fall each season , and we will see different clubs contesting and winning trophies

Unfortunatly that doesn't appear to be happening any time soon [ both the remaining new stadia and all clubs possibly winning a trophy , so to protect both the top clubs [ not holding them back with a salary cap that sends all the best talent to the NRL and Union and give the bottom clubs something to play for past April , the idea to reduce the top tier to 10 clubs

A seperate part is to give the top few Championship clubs something to aim for rather than just playing to be the best P/T club in the northern hemisphere , ie , the equvilant of whichever club wins the 6/7 tier of football in England

Because part of the 10 team SL ' rationale ' includes the re instalement of yearly P and R based primarily on playing success

It wont happen for at least another 5/6 years , until all the remaining clubs have built whatever they have said they are building , and have had a few years in them to see if it makes any difference'"

I'd like to see the cap rise too, it seems to have been at 1.6 million for a few years now. Cutting it and increasing clubs would offset each partially though, and it is about what is doable more than what is desirable. It'd spread talent more thinly, but I wouldn't think it'd have a massive negative impact on what the top players earn - there'd just be fewer of them at each club, with numbers being made up by a greater proportion of lower paid journeymen and kids.
I'm not necessarily advocating 16, but it'd be preferable to 10 IMO.

Bur with fewer teams in the league there would be fewer weeks to show the couple of games, unless additional games were re-introduced on top of everyone playing each other team home and away.

I'd love to see a truly elite 10 team superleague, with a very strong division 1, and national leagues 2 and 3. All with a top 4 play off, with the grand final winners getting promotion.

Sky could pay the same as they do now for exclusive coverage of the top two divisions (Salford v Leigh or Fev v Wakey should get good ratings), with Premier Sports getting the rights for the National Leagues.

There are a number of ways the extra games could be created if needed...


League = 18 games

And what about 2 NRC type cup competitions (one for div 1+2 and one for div 3+4) ensuring 4 more home games per team, then last 8 knock outs?

That gives 26 games, 13 at home.

Plus Challenge Cup and Top 4 play-offs of course.

You dont need to tell me that , in 2003 we played Salford 7 times , in recent years we've played Widnes up to 5 times a season , I'm not ' judging ' it , it's nothing to do with me , just explaining the thought process behind it

NO, no,no , part time lower league sport doesn't need or want the problems of ' Live ' midweek TV coverage

I like that idea. But I'd say the two NRC competitions should be under 24s only, to promote the youth.

Or to current Championship quota rules , just as the Challenge cup should be when clubs from different competitions are playing each other

Wouldn't necessarily have to be midweek games though would it? And it must be a decent idea if thats your only gripe...



It's all hypothetical anyway, as it will never happen.

The quota rules should be restricted to 2/3 per squad anyway. They should be less reliant on them with less teams in each league.

As you say

It is a compromise , it isn't what any of us really wants , its just that we haven't got what any of us really wants , there is nobody truly happy with the state of RL in this country , apart from our friends down at ' Twickers '

An extra thought: The league cup for Divs 1 + 2 could exclude the previous years SuperLeague top 2 or 4 teams for that fancy new World Club Challenge too...

1 in the Championship

It's no coincidence that it's always the same clubs wanting to reduce the numbers.

Less teams means less competition for players, allowing them to hoover up more of the local young talent without other clubs competing.

Super League isn't truly competitive because there simply isn't enough money in it. Once there is and all teams are able to spend up to or very close to the cap it will remain the same. How many clubs are actually making a profit? How many could actually survive without solely being propped up by their financial backers?

I'd be happy with that across the board.

(rotating) rest weeks would be needed to spin it out, I guess.



It's not bad. But you're putting a lot of weight on your NRC equivalent, being a success - it's a third of the season. Won't teams (and fans) 'de-prioritise' it to focus on the league, if P&R are reintroduced? How competitive will the tier 2 teams be with the tier 1s? Will they be getting the cash freed up by the cut to 10? Because to make P&R workable between 1 and 2 you need to narrow the gap, so relegation isn't so catastrophic and promotion isn't just a passport to a season of batterings.
And what are the gains? The top-flight, our highest visibilty competition shrinks. Either more clubs are cut adrift or the top ones are no better off. And players are just as burned out as they are now.

My issue is that lots of different people seem to want this - but because it means different things to them. It's one of those ideas that chairmen, players, coaches and fans can project their desires onto, all agree it is a great idea and then realise that they were talking about different things when it comes to looking at the mechanics of it.

Based on last seasons stadings:

SL
Warrington
Wigan
St Helens
Huddersfield
---------------
Leeds
Catalan
Hull KR
Hull FC
Castleford
---------------
Bradford

Div 1
Salford
London Broncos
Featherstone
Halifax
---------------
Sheffield
Leigh
Widnes
Batley
Dewsbury
--------------
Hunslet

Div 2
Barrow
York
Swinton
Keighley
---------------
Rochdale
Workington
Oldham
Whitehaven
North Wales
------------------
South Wales

Div 3
Doncaster
Gateshead
London Skolars
Hemel Stags
------------------
Northampton
Coventry
Bristol
Anon 1
Anon 2
------------------
Anon 3 (Possibly top 3 NCL teams move up?) (Re-Election zone)

NCL/Community game



What do those divisions look like?