Been a lot of talk about our chances in this years four nations, plenty already writing our chances before a ball is kicked (nothing new there) some ridculous posts about Australia's 3rd team been able to hammer us



I know am going to get shot down for been positive about England, but i generally believe our national side is looking very strong. Maybe this years four nations might come too soon, but i at the very least expect us to put up a serious challenge to OZ and NZ. The talk of Australia's 3rd team been able to wallop us is rubbish. Australia has some very average and poor players in thier league. Theres not that much difference between us and them as everyone makes out and i think we're catching up.

We have got some superb players young players:

James Roby - Best hooker in the world.
Sam Tomkins - Don't like his attitude, but can't take away his immense talent. Will need the right attitude when facing OZ & NZ.
Johnny Lomax - If Billy Slater or Benji Marshall put the performance in he did against Wigan, the forums would have been overloaded, this kid is going to be special.

Tom Briscoe - for me the most exciting talent in the English game. Fast, immensly strong and the skill of the lad is unbelievable. Again if any Aussie player had done some of the things he has, we would never have heard the end of it.


Then you've got the rest of the exciting youngsters coming through, Jones-Bishop, Charnley, Gaskell, Clark, Burgess etc.

I honestly think we are in a really good place at the moment and heading in the right direction. Some fantastic youngsters coming through we have some immense talents in the game who probably don't get the credit they deserve, just because they are English.

Tom Briscoe is the most over-rated player that has played in SL for some time. He is a solid enough winger but no way is he world class. Best of a bad bunch. If he was Australian he'd barely get a game in the NRL.

Hmmmm.... Maybe so, but we now need a world class coach who can galvanise them into a good team and put up an effective game plan. Then we may just about be able to compete.

James Robey is quality but he is not better then Cameron Smith yet.

Also with Steve McNamara in charge England will never achieve anything!

James Roby is awesome but his not better than Cameron Smith. No way!!!

The side looks good but Mcnamara is the coach and that to me is a big negative for me.

You might not think the difference is that big but there is no doubt that Australia have more depth to choose from. The two competitions dont lie and there competition is quite a bit ahead of SL.

Lomax is special and will be star but still when we look at the halves from the 3 major nations we still dont have as good as what they have.

Australia have Lockyer & Thurston

NZ have Benji & Kieran Foran

England have Widdop and I hope Lomax but think it will be Brough.

This is a joke thread isn`t it?

Rubbish. If he was Australian you'd be creaming yourself how amazing he was. Even the most loyal KR fan would say Briscoe is a talent.



whats the joke we have some superb young players coming through?

I suppose Kris Welham is on the road to showing up Greg Inglis?

Briscoe is good, very good but I think you're gilding the lilly a bit.

Wowee, that is nonsense.

Tom Briscoe - A good player, but wont trouble Aus and NZ that much

Personally id rather have BJB or Charnley on the wing as they are the long term solution

the same things have been said for the last 30 odd years

Has the Exiles defeat been wiped from your memory..???

Welham is a solid club player and that's about it.

God help us if he does face Inglis he will get exposed big time.

When I have seen HKR play on TV or at games versus Saints he always shoots out of the defensive line,he will be shot to pieces if he does this against the Aussies or Kiwis.

No Burgess (take your pick), Ellis, Widdop, Reed or Heighington (not that he'll get picked) from the NRL.
Also, no Brough or Roby (injured) so we didn't have our first choice half-backs and were light in the pack. Not to mention out of form centres in Shenton (picked on reputation) and Bridge (doesn't even play there for his club at the mo), Sinfield at stand-off (WTF?!) and a very poor bench and it's no wonder we got beat.

England's strength is unfortunately not in it's depth. We've known that for a while, but at least the Exiles game shows us this (unlike a game against France or Wales that makes our 4th string look like world beaters). We know who can and can't cut it,

Compare the team that faced the Exiles to the team likely to be in the 4N:
England (June 2011):
S.Tomkins, Hall, Bridge, Shenton, Briscoe; Sinfield, Myler; Peacock, Robinson, Graham, Westwood, Wilkin, O'Loughlin.
McIllorum, Carvell, J.Tomkins, Morley.

England (October 2011):
S.Tomkins, Charnley, Reed, Yeaman, Briscoe; Widdop, Brough; Peacock, Roby, Graham, Westwood, Ellis, O,Loughlin.
Robinson, Carvell, Morley, Heighinton.

*Think Sam Burgess is injured IIRC, and don't think Luke has been picked.

We are getting better but still third place I fear. Man for man we are still light years behind Australia in most positions and depth of talent and slipping further behind NZ as more and more Kiwis play NRL.

I'd take both Slater and Locke over Tomkins
Roby is not close to Smith

Our forwards match up well and it is not usually in the pack we lose games

How does this years likely team match up to the last time we had a really decent team that could more than match the Aussies?(1994 1st Test)?

Davies, S.Tomkins,
Robinson, Charnley,
Connolly, Reed,
Hunte, Yeaman,
Offiah, Briscoe
Powell, Widdop,
Edwards, Brough;
Harrison, Peacock
Jackson, Roby
Joynt, Graham
Betts, Westwood
Farrell, Ellis
Clarke. O,Loughlin
Subs:
Goulding, Robinson
McDermott, Carvell
Bateman, Morley
Cassidy, Heighinton

Can't see charnley or Yeaman getting a run out as first choice.

We are getting better with kids like BJB, Watkins, lomax, mossop, etc but let's get real- our two world class players are Tomkins and Roby, slater is better than sam and Roby is probs behind smith, farrah and tennis.

I bet if you search the forum back to the start of the 2009 4-Nations you'd find a similar thread about how exciting the England team was going to be with the introduction to the squad of all these bright young talents like Kyle Eastmond, Richard Myler, Sam Tomkins, Sam Burgess, Michael Shenton, Tom Briscoe, Peter Fox, Ryan Hall..........

The problem is always going to be the same. Strength in depth. We can put a competitive 17 down on paper but as soon as there is an injury in a key position we're knackered! If Tomkins, Widdop or Roby were injured for example their replacement is nowhere near of the same standard. If Slater gets injured they can bring in Hayne or Boyd or Dugan etc. As long as the pool of players is so much bigger to chose from, we're going to struggle. If we can get a full strength team out we might nick the odd game here and there, although I have no confidence in the current coach for that to even happen! We cant be any worse than last year anyway!

Hunte, Powell, Bateman, Cassidy, McDermott and even Robinson-none of that lot were world class.

I reckon we've got a big chance this autumn.

But i'll be honest, I always do. My heart always rules my head when it comes close to England and Leigh games.

I certainly agree with the message from the OP. While I have been desperately hoping for a British/English win in the last decades, the reality is that since the mid 90’s we simply haven’t had the world class players to take on the Southern Hemisphere teams (or where we have had them we have had to play them out of position such as Sculthorpe at 6)

Despite the hope, you would look at the team sheet and see too many weak links to expect a win

I do think things are changing. We have half a dozen players who can lay a genuine claim to being world class or the potential to get there very soon. Tomkins, Briscoe, Widdop, Lomax, Graham, Roby and Burgess are as good as I have seen in a generation with the likes of Watkins, BJB, Reed and more to complement the backs. The average age of that lot must be about 22/23 or so. Add to that the more established players such as Ellis and O’Loughlin who are by no means past it and we could put out a very competitive team

We only have to look at the English cricket team to see what assembling a quality group of players can do – from the late 80’s to the mid 2000’s there was just as much chance of England cricket team beating the Aussies as the RL team – that has been completely turned around and yet the majority of RL fans still have the same defeatist attitudes as ever

Yes very overrated and his lack of size will expose him against the southern hemisphere teams.

Some bizarre statements there. How you can compare the likes of Roby, Lomax etc performances to the players playing in the NRL. It’s like comparing top performing players in the Championship to SL players. You have to remember SL is by no ways as competitive as the NRL. A lot of top SL players will be impressive in one sided games, you could be a very average player in a top SL club could look a world beater when your team are putting 50+ on the sheet.

I really can’t see no reason what so ever why we should be any more optimistic this year any more than any other. Really imo the longer the RFLs goldon boy Mcbanana stays in charge it’s with more certainty you can say we are in for a hard autumn!