James Roby and the Deliverance extra from Wigan, Tomkins, are the best British players in Super League by some distance. They are so much better than their peers that it's like a high school kid going and playing in a primary school league and enjoying being the star. At Saints no one mentions Roby in the 'who played well this week' threads, it's assumed Roby was the best player by a distance, with his robotic 210m and 40 tackles every game. I'll bet it's the same on the Pietaliban forum about Sam, despite the recent controversy about him refusing to pass to his team mates because they aren't good enough for him to pass to.

Both have also recently signed big deals to stay in Super League for the forseeable future when really, IMO, the NRL should be the challenge they are aiming up to.

Although it's going to hurt my own side in SL, I can't wait to see how the big red machine goes in the NRL. I'd love to watch how Roby and Sam go at that level as well. It would be fun to see Sam's 18 foot sidestep slice an NRL side open wouldn't it?

For the good of SL, Hopefully we can keep these two well away from the NRL

If these two go it will confirm my belief that we are a second tier league, a bit like what the dutch or scottish league has become in football

Not sure Tomkins would make it in the NRL to be honest, he's shown nothing for England that suggests to me he'd be nothing more than average to be honest, but who knows.

Can't see Roby going to the NRL.

He has recently just signed a new deal with Saints.

Tomkins on the other hand may still go to the NRL,even though he has signed a new deal recently he is still pretty young so who knows.

Both players have the abilty to do very well in the NRL. Sam publically said that he was homesick after 6 weeks in Oz for the 4 nations so i can't see him going anytime soon. If Roby does go it probably needs to be in the next year or 2.

To be fair he seemed to suffer from the typical English International "4 overs" syndrome:

Overhyped, overrated, overawed, overhere.

But he still has time on his side. Too many English players have found the step up from outstanding club player to outstanding international a difficult one.

I think both would be great in the NRL, but I think most players in the top 5 teams in SL would. IMO there ain't much of a gap between our top 5 and the NRL.

The thing with sam in last years four nations was nothing to do with being overhyped. He was being played at full back and had played there for little over 6 months. To be expected to stand out after this long in a position would take some doing especially against the aussie kick chase and how poor that england team was.

This year we have seen sam fit into the full back role more comfortably, with him still learning the role week by week. I think with Brough and Widdop in the halves he will be able to chime into the line when he pleases, will definately benefit Sam having two good halves with him and especially Brough who will take quite alot of responsibility with kicking duties onto his shoulders.

I hope you're right - would love to see him carving the Aussies up. However, he will need to do what both Aus and NZ do and raise his game beyond club level. Something many English players seem unable to do.

Yes, he's rubbish isn't he. He can't run, pass, sidestep, tackle, kick, dummy and no NRL side would even have him sweeping the dressing room and no other SL side would even have him as a bucket man. Even the rahrahs, after they'd queued up to offer him untold riches, which he declined to stay loyal to Wigan, are really glad they didn't sign him. He's definitely rubbish.

By the way, you aren't related to Gerald Ratner are you ??

If anyone's

it's you. There was nothing wrong with what he said and you've just got sand in your gash becuase he is being cautious when rating Sam Tomkins' potential as a world class player, and given the fact that not many English backs (especially stand offs, and full backs) have been world class in the last 30-40 years seems about right to me.

Well done for adding absolutely nothing to the debate.

Perhaps you should try reading what posters actually say, here's a helping hand - my key sentence was:

"Too many English players have found the step up from outstanding club player to outstanding international a difficult one."

Maybe you should try to wind your neck in past those rather large chips.

Sam Tomkins is an absolute myth. His side-step is a joke - Just a lanky streak of who got found out and will continue to get found out against quality opposition.

At fullback he's a very poor-mans Josh Dugan, at Stand-Off he's no better than Ben Roberts, and at scrum half he isn't fit to clean Forans, Widdops, Hodkinson, Normans, Luis, Henrys, Barbas shoes. And they're all pups, unproven at that. If I started rolling out established NRL players it would get really embarrassing.

Tomkins is a hologram. In the NRL he'd be contained and smashed. Laughable that someone a few posts up tried to excuse his crap Four Nations display with the justification that the Aussies and Kiwis are good at kicking - That's an argument against him, not for him! If he can't position himself and return the football against Australia and NZ, what makes you think he could do it against NRL teams? Many of which actually boast superior tactical kickers than what the Kiwis and the Kangaroos have. Blokes like Jamie Soward, for example. These guys who ruined Tomkins in the Four Nations with their kicks aren't even rated for having a tactical boot by NRL standards!

Don't even get me started on Tomkins as a human being. He'd get beaten up every game for some of the filth he gets away with in the SL. He'd get broken in three. Like when Benji Marshall gave him a smack and he looked like he was gonna cry and hit the 'reverse' switch, in last years Four Nations. Or when the The Hunchback of Notre-Dame beat him up the other week.

The only hope for Tomkins is that he evolves away from being a disgusting troll and gets some experience and training under his belt with a real team.

Profound.

You two should meet up or something.

I think the first bloke you quoted was being sarcastic. We wouldn't have much in common

I meant the way you both went completely over the top in your posts, I know he was being sarcastic.

I see your point about Sam in the last four nations , but that was one series of games. If there's a correlation between the last four nations and this four nations then the point may become more relevant.

Haha, I genuinely don't like Tomkins; As if you needed telling. He's good, and I'm downplaying his potential, but I believe the majority of what I've said. I would have 5, potentially 10 + players over him in any of his played positions, right now. And I believe he'd get heavily penalised in the NRL for his antics, if not beaten up, and the commentators and media would vilify him for being a grubby rat - Rather than the Golden Boy image he enjoys amongst the Media and Commentary here.. I also believe his ability to step and find the gap would be muted against NRL teams.

He's a 5lb Bream swimming amongst 5 oz Roach's. A big fish in a small pond. In the NRL there lurks 40lb Pike, and crocodiles and sting-rays.

So, Sam Tomkins couldn’t make the grade in the NRL. Could I ask you which part of his game is weaker than Brett Hodgson who played 6 times for New South Wales in State of Origin?

but that is exacally what super league is

Think potentially tomkins would fair better in the NRL. Both would have to raise standards to the rest, but I think roby would struggle more. There are less easy meters avalable from dummy half scoots in the NRL, and PTB is much slower and controlled.

The PTB in the NRL is much quicker, and is so because they have two refs to control the match.

not in the games ive seen in the NRL and state of orgin.

Do tell, how many games have you watched?

Well the SOO the play the balls were a joke, if that is the best standard of RL there is, I'll keep Super League thanks.

It was like watching two Wigan teams with the ammount of spoiling in the ruck that was going on.