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| Other codes in the UK, including other high profile Rugby Union competitions, also witness a few teams dominate the competition.
* The Aviva Premiership has only been won by 7 clubs in its 25 year history, with three clubs winning 21 of those 25 seasons, Leicester (9 titles), Bath and Wasps (6 each). A core of clubs still always place well.
* The Premier League - 20 clubs, still dominated by a Big 4 or 5. 5 winners in 20 years, Man U with 12 of those.
* French Top 14 RU - 14 clubs, only 5 clubs in the 16 years of professionalism, with 2 clubs winning 11 of the 16 titles (Toulouse with 6, Stade Francais with 5).
Players will obviously take up the game for the love of it, and achieve as much as they can, but large offers from other competitions would be very tempting, especially if faced with a pay cut due to a reduced salary cap. Players will also seek to maximise earnings during their player career.
Guys like Jason Robinson, Andy Farrell, Henry Paul, Iestyn Harris, even Vainikolo and Hape were a big loss to RL at the time. The increased earnings in RU would have been one factor in their switch (among a number, admittedly). Current players like Chris Ashton, Kyle Eastmond, Joel Tomkins, Owen Farrell and George Ford would all be excellent additions to SL and the national team - the first 2 would be certain starters. Super League will miss 10 star players that could boost the competition's standards and appeal.
There is also evidence of competitions losing good players to competitions with a higher salary cap In recent times.
* NRL lost a number of players to big deals in SH Rugby (Sailor, Rogers, Tuqiri, Tahu, Folau), the Top 14 (Gasnier, Gower, SBW) and Top League (Craig Wing), and to Super League (over the 2000s).
* Wales RU has seen 8 current test players move to France.
* Super League - to Aviva Premiership, see above. Even so, 4 Aviva Premiership clubs successfully lobbied for a recent cap increase, Leicester's coach Richard Cockerill most vocally complaining about big spending Top 14 and Japan Top League clubs poaching players.
* Southern Hemisphere RU (especially South Africa) - many.
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Club Owner | 20966 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Why is income from fans any more stable than income from a rich owner/director? Fan bases fluctuate depending on results and economics of the area. There are no guarantees income from fans will remain the same each year.'"
If you don't link it to tangibles like fan revenue, youmay as well just doaway with the cap,as rich owners will simply buy trophies......as I said, Viable Business plans, not projections and the like.
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Club Owner | 33944 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="gutterfax"FWIW, depending on what figure you use, the break even attendance needed at most SL clubs is 10,000 a game.
Very rough maths are:
SKY 1.3 MILL
10K ave @25 notes each (tickets and residuals) 3.25 mill
Sponsorship, corporates advertising etc...half a millio
5 Million turn over and you should be allowed spend 20% of anything over that OVER THE CAP.
Clubs averaging over 10k a week will have an unfair advantage to start with, but by christ, you'd see a different kind of investor buying into the so called "smaller clubs", because for all the talk of the recession and times being hard, once you get fans used to coming to games, they will keep coming back.
Rough estimate id that Ian Lenagan has added 3k a match to the pie average over 5 years....something like 20% increase in attendances and about 15% in turn over.....smart businessmen are what's needed, not sugar daddy's'"
No, no, NO, a ' special relationship ' with your landlord is what you need, Leigh have a ' plan ' that would allow them to be competitive in SL on attendances of 3,500
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International Chairman | 18062 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="The Observer"Farrell is highly regarded in RU circles for his coaching ability. Lancaster may not have lifted Leeds off the foot of the premiership, but he had to work with a team promoted from the Championship, which has consistently struggled in the Premiership. Compare Leeds RU's players with those of teams like Leicester and Saracens.
As for Lancaster's competition, he won the job over Nick Mallett, the former South Africa Springboks coach who won a record 17 tests in a row. Fellow former Springbok coach Jake White (World Cup winner in 2007) expressed interest. England could also have gone for world class coaches like NZer Vern Cotter (took French club Clermont to 4 consecutive finals, winning the 4th) or Australian Michael Cheika (won a Celtic League and European Cup title with irish province Leinster).
Lancaster and Farrell coached their side well enough to beat the All Blacks last year, which hasn't been done since August last year.
Farrell would not get into the All Black or Wallaby sides. However, nor would any of the other NH playmakers or Springboks for that matter. Furthermore, which England RL playmakers would get into the Kangaroos? None. It is immaterial, as Farrell would only need contend for a place in the England RU or RL teams, and would compete well for a place.'"
On Farrell being well regarded - so is Mick Ford, Neil Kelly etc they hardly starred in RL and if they could get a job in RL they would be back in a shot. Noble is another one - no one in RL wants to give him a job but he can get work in RU.
England have never had a foreign coach so Lancaster was not really competing with Mallet as you well know. You mentioned Leeds struggling the point of a good coach is to get the best out of the players - can you really say that about Lancaster's time at Leeds?
The point about Farrell was would he be any good in RL - the answer to that is no - he speed of thought is too slow - in RL he would be much closer to the line his decision making would have to quicken considerably also how would he defend against big centres two/three times in a set!!
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| Quote ="JB Down Under"Why is income from fans any more stable than income from a rich owner/director? Fan bases fluctuate depending on results and economics of the area. There are no guarantees income from fans will remain the same each year.'"
Greater spread - if one owner goes he takes it all - it is unlikely you whole crowd would go on mass. Most clubs will have fans who have been going considerably longer than any of the owners have owned the club.
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Club Owner | 14082 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Greater spread - if one owner goes he takes it all - it is unlikely you whole crowd would go on mass. Most clubs will have fans who have been going considerably longer than any of the owners have owned the club.'"
True but you lose 2000 fans and your losses become just as great as most owners (London aside) are putting in each year, and it's not unheard of to have avg attendance fluctuations of 2000 a season depending on performance.
gutterfax's scenario also doesn't take into account expense. One club could have 4mill income and be more profitable than a club with 5 mill income depending on how much they are spending on ground hire, coaches, directors scouting trips to Australia etc.
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