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Sorry about the choice of words. Delete never been audited insert rarely passed as correct. Still wondering about the first 20 years figures.
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Sorry about the choice of words. Delete never been audited insert rarely passed as correct. Still wondering about the first 20 years figures.
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| Quote ="woolly07"Bulliac, I was just picking up on the "strong" word and it reminded me of many conversations down the years about what makes a good leader / boss.
It is a good point you make about how different people need a different approach. I used to think it all came down to experience but I am not sure it is only experience. My line manager at the moment is near retirement and he is appalling in the way he treats people - do it my way or else attitude. You have probably met many like that. The top boss is just over half my age and is terrific. He listens and takes in what people say which encourages them to contribute but he then decides. He explains why we have to do it that way and how we will all benefit.
I myself have had different management jobs but am now close to early retirement and work part time and am finding it very nice to be near the bottom of the ladder again for the next few years. There are lots of good managers but few excellent ones and they usually move on quickly to better themselves. We could talk for hours on this topic and probably end up in the same place describing the same type of person.'"
I've had all sorts over the years mate. I keep saying that, "one day I'll write a book", though I reckon it will remain the same unfulfilled ambition it is now!
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| Quote ="Ginger"That is clearly not the case. I'm sure very few people's main driver is to hand power to global corporations.
The poll results on this thread are interesting and do seem to reflect wider society where a left leaning minority are more vocal on social media, whilst a silent majority tend to vote right.
For me, the left have to find a way of engaging those who vote right that doesn't tell them they are racist, stupid, xenophobic etc. And they need to recognise the value of strong leadership. People like to follow a strong leader. Even if it's not quite down the path they'd like.'"
I think you missed my point, I am sure the majority of people who voted for Brexit do not want this to happen - but the Brexit leaders: Farage, Banks, and the Tory hard-right certainly do even if they don't care to say it.
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| Quote ="Northernrelic"I think you missed my point, I am sure the majority of people who voted for Brexit do not want this to happen - but the Brexit leaders: Farage, Banks, and the Tory hard-right certainly do even if they don't care to say it.'"
What's more relic, if we are desperate enough to find trade agreements, and we accept a TTIP type deal from the 'good ol' USA, that's exactly what we'll get. From being "run by" a democratic EU to being run by undemocratic multi nationals - some "taking back control".
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| You are right Bulliac, you cannot just rock up, shake a few hands and get a good trade deal as the Brexiters seem to think as:
1) Most Trade deals now take up to 10 years to negotiate
2) After 40 years in the EU the UK actually doesn't have enough trained negotiators and is trying to poach them from the Kiwis.
3) Big countries get better deals, small countries get f*****d over, so Britain has cleverly gone from being part of the world's largest trading bloc to being out on our lonesome
4) I think it was Liam Fox who went and asked the Indians if they fancied a Free Trade Deal with what was left of the of the former UK, they said maybe if you give freer access to Indian citizens going to the UK! But they were very polite and asked Liam if his job as paid front man for a shady far right lobby group - sorry cabinet minister was going well.
Its all going to be even harder than signing a couple of decent front rowers for the Bulls!
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| That was an excellent read.
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| The other day Radio Leeds were interviewing people in Castleford, many of which said they were voting Conservative. Now if ever there was proof positive that the world is entirely on its head then this is it. People in Castleford voting Tory? What the actual eff?! A town in the very heart of mining country has people in it who will cheerfully turn Blue.
I can only presume that Arthur Scargill will be doing the same. It's no less insane.
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| I will be voting with my feet. Someone's getting their head kicked in. Very likely the first person to knock on my door to ask who I'm voting for.
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| The only good thing to come out of this election will be the resignation of Corbyn
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| I thought that but he might not go.
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| Quote ="daveyz999"The only good thing to come out of this election will be the resignation of Corbyn'"
If Labour were going to have any chance whatsoever then Corbyn would need to walk before the Election rather than after.
The rot has set in for years since Teflon Tony and his USA love-in and a succession of complete prats leading the party is unlikely to change anything in the near future.
Up here we have Kezia Dugdale. Woefully out of her depth and cannon fodder for the SNP and Tories in Holyrood. She cannot arrest the slump in traditional Labour areas.
Scotland has ALWAYS been Red in my lifetime (until the freedom fighters got in) and now lie MILES behind Conservative up here.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"The other day Radio Leeds were interviewing people in Castleford, many of which said they were voting Conservative. Now if ever there was proof positive that the world is entirely on its head then this is it. People in Castleford voting Tory? What the actual eff?! A town in the very heart of mining country has people in it who will cheerfully turn Blue.
I can only presume that Arthur Scargill will be doing the same. It's no less insane.'"
The Tories got a council seat in Ferguslie Park in Paisley, which is one of the most downtrodden estates in the UK. This is pretty much unthinkable TBH.
They will do well in the Election as many of my fellow Scots now see them as the only alternative to the Provisional SNP who we need to get out, as soon as possible.
I wasted my vote in the Council elections as my protest vote went to the Labour Candidates. It will be Blue in June I am afraid as it is now not who I want IN, it is who I want OUT.
And there is no chance of Labour ousting them.
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| Quote ="mystic eddie"If Labour were going to have any chance whatsoever then Corbyn would need to walk before the Election rather than after.
The rot has set in for years since Teflon Tony and his USA love-in and a succession of complete prats leading the party is unlikely to change anything in the near future.
Up here we have Kezia Dugdale. Woefully out of her depth and cannon fodder for the SNP and Tories in Holyrood. She cannot arrest the slump in traditional Labour areas.
Scotland has ALWAYS been Red in my lifetime (until the freedom fighters got in) and now lie MILES behind Conservative up here.'"
Think it's too late now for Labour in 2017. However with a more appealing leader and front bench there's no reason they can't have a better shot at it in 2022.
Think Labour have a chance of turning it around in Scotland but it'd take time. The SNP are probably never going to get a referendum, even if they did a yes vote isn't a foregone conclusion. Perhaps Labour could do better by saying they'll do a better job as they're committed to the union but also prepared to stand up for Scottish interests in London whereas the SNP are obsessed with referendums?
Up there Labour need competent and convincing leaders though, just like down here.
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| I shall be voting conservative for the first time
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| So you want to Vote for massive cuts to education? Yes that's right - the education of CHILDREN. By our reckoning, thanks to the reduction in spending, next year we may have to cut 3 teachers. So who is going to teach the classes? Any ideas?
Thanks Tory voters, sleep well knowing the country will be strong and f*****g stable.
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| Quote ="debaser"
Thanks Tory voters, sleep well knowing the country will be strong and f*****g stable.'"
With the SNP in a strong position MY country will NEVER be stable.
I would rather face the Tory way than the complete uncertainty and financially un-viable view of the SNP who will make cuts to more than just education.
Still, why blame the Tories? Teflon Tony told us that he was only interested in "Education, Education and Education"
We all know how that ended up didn't we?
Imagine how much the education system would have benefitted from the billions of quid spunked away on an illegal war by Tony and his cronies?
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| Hopefully you'll keep your job debaser.
Over here in the NHS things are hanging by a thread. Things put in place to deal with an emergency 5 years ago are now normal business. Staff are leaving my place and we've got heaps of vacancies we can't fill.
Think the NHS and education will be toast before the next election.
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| The problem is, our democracy works best when there is a strong & confident opposition, scrutinising everything the government does & forcing them to "play fair" for want of a better expression.
Kim Jong-May doesn't tolerate opposition, as far as I can see. She also feels that she doesn't actually have to meet or talk to the voters either. She's for the betterment of the top 25%, big business, corporate greed & invasion of privacy. The last one I suppose is marginally better than invasion of sovereign countries, but there you go....
The NHS is about to die. The only (tiny) silver lining is that the party which is in power when it goes, will be blamed and unelectable for a generation.
There's no way I could vote for her.
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| Quote ="mystic eddie"
Imagine how much the education system would have benefitted from the billions of quid spunked away on an illegal war by Tony and his cronies?'"
Well indeed but the Tories voted for that war too.
If you're bothered about public services like health and education don't vote Conservative, or if you do don't moan when they're suffering from cuts.
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| Quote ="Bullseye"Well indeed but the Tories voted for that war too.
If you're bothered about public services like health and education don't vote Conservative, or if you do don't moan when they're suffering from cuts.'"
I am not moaning about these cuts though.
As I have said, I am voting Tory as it is in MY best interest at the moment (after all that is why we vote is it not?)
The cuts that would result from an SNP led Independent Scotland are far more of a concern to me than anything else.
With the exception of the Blair years, Labour do not get re-elected after one term in office. There have to be reasons for this?
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| Quote ="mystic eddie"I am not moaning about these cuts though.
As I have said, I am voting Tory as it is in MY best interest at the moment (after all that is why we vote is it not?)
The cuts that would result from an SNP led Independent Scotland are far more of a concern to me than anything else.
With the exception of the Blair years, Labour do not get re-elected after one term in office. There have to be reasons for this?'"
Fair enough.
Speaking personally I don't just consider what's best for me alone when I decide who to vote for. For instance I'd do alright from some Tory policies but there are bigger things at stake. People less well off than me deserve a break IMO.
Labour have struggled to get re-elected without Blair because Blair's appeal went beyond the core Labour vote and attracted voters that supported other parties.
That's the reason the current Labour Party will never get elected. They can have hundreds of thousands of members but that won't make a difference in the key marginals.
Labour has to appeal to more than just the left of the party and all the recent "blow ins" from other fringe parties or what's the point?
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| Quote ="Bullseye"Fair enough.
Speaking personally I don't just consider what's best for me alone when I decide who to vote for. For instance I'd do alright from some Tory policies but there are bigger things at stake. People less well off than me deserve a break IMO.
Labour have struggled to get re-elected without Blair because Blair's appeal went beyond the core Labour vote and attracted voters that supported other parties.
That's the reason the current Labour Party will never get elected. They can have hundreds of thousands of members but that won't make a difference in the key marginals.
Labour has to appeal to more than just the left of the party and all the recent "blow ins" from other fringe parties or what's the point?'"
Well my view is that an Independent Scotland would be Armageddon so I am thinking long-term as well as for the here and now. I have never voted Tory in my life and my family are real Labour people, but it is not working.
I never thought I would vote Tory but I need the SNP out and then I can get back to voting with my heart rather than my head.
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| Do you reckon there's a serious chance of another referendum and independence? I'm not so sure. The SNP bang on about it but I think a lot of it is hot air.
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| It's closer than you think. Scotland voted 55:45 for the Union.
But 65:35 to remain in Europe
And the choice for a 2nd referendum would be between Independence & back into Europe
and Union and staying out of Europe.
2 opposing voting blocks, on the same ticket. Flip a coin time I would think.
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