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Quote ="ridlerbull"I'm not. RBS and Bulls' statements in the press contradict one another (www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/17536053) so I know neither what they have done, nor whether what they have done was wrong or not. However, there is discussion on their sponsorship page that does sit well in light of what has happened over the last couple of days, and it sticks in my craw.'"
RBS's rugby sponsorship focuses (rightly or wrongly) on Rugby Union.
In any case, there's a huge difference in "connecting with communities" through projects like Cricket Force for local AMATEUR clubs and a commercial banking relationship with a PROFESSIONAL club with an annual turnover (reportedly) in excess of £3m. |
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Quote ="ridlerbull"I'm not. RBS and Bulls' statements in the press contradict one another (www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/17536053) so I know neither what they have done, nor whether what they have done was wrong or not. However, there is discussion on their sponsorship page that does sit well in light of what has happened over the last couple of days, and it sticks in my craw.'"
RBS's rugby sponsorship focuses (rightly or wrongly) on Rugby Union.
In any case, there's a huge difference in "connecting with communities" through projects like Cricket Force for local AMATEUR clubs and a commercial banking relationship with a PROFESSIONAL club with an annual turnover (reportedly) in excess of £3m. | |
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Haven't RBS been bought out by Banco Santander ?
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| Quote ="fleabag"Haven't RBS been bought out by Banco Santander ?'"
Er...No.
You own it. |
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| Quote ="redeverready"I can't believe that anyone is trying to find any fault with what the RBS have done.'"
The version of events I heard this evening suggests quite the opposite, and supports what I was told earlier. |
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Er...No.
You own it.'"
Wish I did Bulls would not have a problem lol
Understand what you mean |
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Yes santander are taking over RBS,told so by a Bulls fan who works in santander on monday in Bradford city centre.
She was gutted about the situ !
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Hi,
RBS are not getting taken over by Santander.
You're getting mixed up with the (enforced) branch sale.
RBS have sold 318 UK branches to Santander.
Hope this clears things up.
M
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| Quote ="MilesBarton"Hi,
RBS are not getting taken over by Santander.
You're getting mixed up with the (enforced) branch sale.
RBS have sold 318 UK branches to Santander.
Hope this clears things up.
M'"
Thanks for clearing that up.
Does this mean that RBS is monitoring this board for the moment? |
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Well done RBS
You have a history of irresponsible behaviour and I am pleased to see you are trying to move away this now that you re playing with our money.
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Yes RBS is watching you........
Seriously, I hold some shares in RBS, but I'm also a Bulls fan.
I’m not entirely familiar with the situation, the Bullbuilder guys seem to know more.
But from an outsider’s prospective, we seem to have sold our only asset (Odsal lease) to cover the RFL debt. However, this deal has resulted in the overdraft facility been withdraw by RBS, as the Bulls no longer hold any securities. RBS have made similar decisions with other businesses, such as GAME and even Gordon Ramsey.
Seems when we sold the lease, the board were caught between a rock and a hard place. How we got to that position is what I would like answering!
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I'm struggling to work out how we were physically able to sell the ground lease if it was the main security on the overdraft. Sorry if I'm biased because I hate RBS and love Braford Bulls but it doesn't seem as simple as RBS are making out.
Also if Ryan Duckett is to be believed they were offered securities last week by the directors last week. From my experience RBS seem to be quite inflexible nowadays in their lending to businesses.
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RBS' Corporate Banking Division claims: -
"No bank is doing more to support UK businesses than RBS"
Regardless of the securities issues, it doesn't seem that way to me...
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| Quote ="MilesBarton"Yes RBS is watching you........
Seriously, I hold some shares in RBS, but I'm also a Bulls fan.
I’m not entirely familiar with the situation, the Bullbuilder guys seem to know more.
But from an outsider’s prospective, we seem to have sold our only asset (Odsal lease) to cover the RFL debt. However, this deal has resulted in the overdraft facility been withdraw by RBS, as the Bulls no longer hold any securities. RBS have made similar decisions with other businesses, such as GAME and even Gordon Ramsey.
Seems when we sold the lease, the board were caught between a rock and a hard place. How we got to that position is what I would like answering!'"
It was not our only asset. Far from it. And it was IMO an asset of little value to a bank in the event of insolvency. Also, I do not believe RBS's explanation that they pulled the facility for the reason they said. I suspect (although do not know) they saw the big receipt from the RFL, and took the opportunity to cut and run while they had the chance. In also suspect that this was all the domino effect from the RFL wanting the loan repaid earlier than expected (however that arose). I was told several years ago by a senior RBS official (I was in the middle of negotiating a £3m facility at the time...) that they RBS had no appetite for lending to RL clubs, and wanted to exit the sector.
But we do not have concrete facts, so I'm hesitant to pillory RBS as it stands - especially since they are owned by the taxpayer, and we'd scream blue murder if they lent to someone we saw as a poor credit risk! |
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| Quote ="Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza"I'm struggling to work out how we were physically able to sell the ground lease if it was the main security on the overdraft. Sorry if I'm biased because I hate RBS and love Braford Bulls but it doesn't seem as simple as RBS are making out.
Also if Ryan Duckett is to be believed they were offered securities last week by the directors last week. From my experience RBS seem to be quite inflexible nowadays in their lending to businesses.'"
...is the right answer.
And RBS are our current bankers, so I can speak from the same experience. |
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Apparently the Lord Mayor of London is a lifelong Bradford fan. He wants to get in there and start swinging his mace about.
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Moderator
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Or put it on Ebay.
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It's ironic that the amount we're looking for to save our club is pretty much exactly what RBS head honcho Hester was going to get as his Christmas friggin bonus.
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And I have already put up a strong argument regarding why I cannot believe that was the case.
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Quote ="Londo06"...
But on a serious note RBS said they removed the overdraft because of the stadium www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/17536053 Simple way for the overdraft bk would be for the RFL to transfer the title deed back to the Bulls and RBS would be olbliged to restore the overdraft.'"
Except the report doesn't say that; it says:-
Quote The cash-strapped club claimed on Monday that their lending facility has been significantly reduced by RBS, but the bank have labelled this as "incorrect".
RBS's statement sent to the BBC said: "It is incorrect to say RBS has cut the Bulls overdraft. We have been aware of cash difficulties faced by the Bulls for some time and have supported them through the last few months.
"However, the Bulls' main security was the lease on the stadium which they have recently sold and we have not been provided with replacement security to date."'"
So they claim that to say they reduced the O/D is "incorrect";
the impression I got from the various bits emananting from Bulls sources is that the Bulls had asked the bank tyo [iextend[/i the O/D;
and irritatingly the RBS statement doesn't say what they did when told they had lost the security of the lease. I mean, they must have done [isomething[/i, else why mention it at all, but if not alter the O/D - then what?
Also they say the Bulls' main security was the lease; quite apart from Adey's explanations as to why that sounds dodgy, what sort of a bank has a security that the club can get rid of without so much as a by-your-leave from the secured creditor? What flavour of "security" is that? Certainly none that I've ever heard of!
It's a bit like a building society saying to me, here's £200K, you own a house so that's enough security for us, don't worry about any paperwork! |
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Quote ="Londo06"...
But on a serious note RBS said they removed the overdraft because of the stadium www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/17536053 Simple way for the overdraft bk would be for the RFL to transfer the title deed back to the Bulls and RBS would be olbliged to restore the overdraft.'"
Except the report doesn't say that; it says:-
Quote The cash-strapped club claimed on Monday that their lending facility has been significantly reduced by RBS, but the bank have labelled this as "incorrect".
RBS's statement sent to the BBC said: "It is incorrect to say RBS has cut the Bulls overdraft. We have been aware of cash difficulties faced by the Bulls for some time and have supported them through the last few months.
"However, the Bulls' main security was the lease on the stadium which they have recently sold and we have not been provided with replacement security to date."'"
So they claim that to say they reduced the O/D is "incorrect";
the impression I got from the various bits emananting from Bulls sources is that the Bulls had asked the bank tyo [iextend[/i the O/D;
and irritatingly the RBS statement doesn't say what they did when told they had lost the security of the lease. I mean, they must have done [isomething[/i, else why mention it at all, but if not alter the O/D - then what?
Also they say the Bulls' main security was the lease; quite apart from Adey's explanations as to why that sounds dodgy, what sort of a bank has a security that the club can get rid of without so much as a by-your-leave from the secured creditor? What flavour of "security" is that? Certainly none that I've ever heard of!
It's a bit like a building society saying to me, here's £200K, you own a house so that's enough security for us, don't worry about any paperwork! | |
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And I think you might find they were offered additional security, which they declined?
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Or didnt value as much as the stadium lease?
We were asking to lend more. They are a commercial lender, albeit one under massive pressure from pretty much everyone in the UK to tighten up their lending procedure and not expose itself to any more toxic debt.
we all know Odsal is toxic!
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"Except the report doesn't say that; it says:-
So they claim that to say they reduced the O/D is "incorrect";
the impression I got from the various bits emananting from Bulls sources is that the Bulls had asked the bank tyo [iextend[/i the O/D;
and irritatingly the RBS statement doesn't say what they did when told they had lost the security of the lease. I mean, they must have done [isomething[/i, else why mention it at all, but if not alter the O/D - then what?
Also they say the Bulls' main security was the lease; quite apart from Adey's explanations as to why that sounds dodgy, what sort of a bank has a security that the club can get rid of without so much as a by-your-leave from the secured creditor? What flavour of "security" is that? Certainly none that I've ever heard of!
It's a bit like a building society saying to me, here's £200K, you own a house so that's enough security for us, don't worry about any paperwork!'"
What are the chances of the RFL signing Odsal back to the Bradford Bulls for say £1, as the RFL could not in all likelihood afford to loan the Bulls the necessary shortfall in funds. The Bulls then return to RBS with security and go from there, and restore any line of credit that may or may not have been decreased. |
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| Quote ="Londo06"What are the chances of the RFL signing Odsal back to the Bradford Bulls for say £1, as the RFL could not in all likelihood afford to loan the Bulls the necessary shortfall in funds. The Bulls then return to RBS with security and go from there, and restore any line of credit that may or may not have been decreased.'"
What's the number below "nil"? Less than that. |
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"What's the number below "nil"? Less than that.'"
Is that because the RFL prob wouldn't do it or that RBS wouldn't restore or in any way increase the Bulls overdraft facility if they are given the documentation showing Odsal in Bradford Bulls hands again.
Donations will help but even a small increase in the line of credit would assist the Bulls, and the signing over of a stadium that would be of no interest to anyone but developers could be the beset route to bring liquidity to the club. |
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