The fact that we raised our game to be really competitive each time with Leigh, simply infuriates me all the more. Take that attitude to every other game (or even just one of them!) and we would have beaten Dewsbury or Featherstone or Halifax etc and be in the Qualifiers.

The fact is that the same players who raised their game each time against Leigh, inexplicably opted to be utterly gutless plenty of other times.

On balance, I feel that as fans have let our squad off quite lightly with an end of year outcome I personally consider disgusting.

That the players have to play in these nothing games is punishment for them. Fans have been voting with their feet.

If rumours are to be believed some players have been too. I guess that shows how we ended up where we are.

I prefer to look forward now to next year with a squad that actually wants to play for Bradford Bulls and a coach that can inspire them.

Leigh changed their coach at the beginning of the season. They lost their first game but went the rest of the season undefeated in the league. They assimilated plenty of new signings and overcame injuries to key players. In addition to those problems they handled the Ranji Chase meltdown and the Ryan Brierley episode. But after the Batley match they did not lose. Some performances were below their fan's expectations yet the key test was passed- gaining points. I'm not sure that Leigh had a determined policy to gradually build towards the the end of the season . It may have been force of circumstances.
Our coach has been in place since May and has had time to assess both what is for him, a new competition and his inherited squad. So I believe he is in a comparable position to that of Jukes in early 2016. Whilst Jukes knew the league and knew the squad already that's countered by Smith having a full pre season with by and large ,nhis chosen squad
I think everyone on here is impressed by the signings mid 2016 season. We seem of one mind that the "Spine " of the team for 2017 is good. We have seen all of that group except Leon play together over the past few weeks.
It is unlikely that every single one of the new signings will be a complete success but given his record so far, it's reasonable to hope that most will impress.

What is people’s realistic outcome for next year at which point you’d be willing to call it a success?

I totally understand people looking forward to a team put together in Rohan’s image, and with a desire to put in some actual effort. But my cup half empty mindset tends to think…so what. If we put together a decent squad then we finish maybe 2nd, we get in the qualifiers, and we probably lose to every superleague team, some of them by 40 points. We’d be like London this year. Are we happy with that? Because without a millionaire we can’t make a Leigh squad, can’t really compete, and can’t be promoted.

What does success look like for Bradford?

Said Eeyore.

For me i think top is a realistic target. Top 2 minimum. I'd like us to be competitive in the eights I.E The games not over after not over after 20 minutes.

I'd be happy with that, perhaps a single win versus SL opposition and maybe a shot in the MPG too.

I think we're lacking the resources to mount a challenge for the top 3 of the middle 8s but would be overjoyed to be proven wrong.

There's so much room for improvement on this year's shower that a top 4 finish and a respectable showing in the 8s would do me.

I'd like to see our young players kick on and start to look capable of being 1st team regulars.

I agree with you FA and did so last season that to get automatic promotion is an option that requires a Championship team to win 5 games. It doesnt matter what else happens, 10 points pretty much guarantees you a place. I do not agree with you that the RFL have tried to conceal this hidden route to promotion, as it clearly shows that a Championship team, having beaten two SL sides, deserves a go at more of them and validates the process, much more than the MPG.

What I and clearly other posters find difficult to understand about your position is that you seem to be saying that it is easier to gain promotion by beating two SL sides than by beating one in the MPG. Wakefield did not melt down in the MPG last season, they beat us. So why is it easier to get automatic promotion than it is to win the MPG?

Success next year should include:-

1. No WUP's or stories about people being paid late
2. All the squad makes some positive contribution, no one is brought in and doesn't see the light of day ever again
3. In the 4 and challenging for 2nd as a minimum (whether we can really challenge for no 1. depends who comes down, if its Hudds, & Davey continues to fund them, they should be the Leigh for 2017, Salford or HKR maybe different dependant on support from owners)
4. We are competitive in the middle 8's - games go into final quarter and we're still in with a chance
5. We show pride in defence every game
6. No repeats of debacles like Featherstone where it seemed like the players couldn't give a to55 (I don't want to believe that, but having witnessed it with my own eyes.....)
7. 2 of the juniors promoted into the squad for next year, nail down a first team place

From where we've been for the last 3-4 years, would be a step in the right direction, is it too much to ask.

I just assumed that it is easier to win 5/7 (71%) games over the course of 8 weeks - or 2/4 (50%) if you want to spin out the 4 SL clubs? Rather than having to win 1/1 (100%) from the mpg. The SL club will always the advantage in a winner takes all single game. It could be psychological, it could be game speed, it could be refs, intensity or all of the above. But in a 7 game mini league, those factors seem to be levelled out. I don't have any evidence based proof of any of this, it's just what it seemed to be whilst watching over the last year

Success for me next season is s top 4 finish. With a SL club probably coming down top 2 would be a triumph. Also 80 minute performances and maximum effort a must. Finally should we fail to make SL next year another success would be keeping the youngsters. Without those future stars/ a sugar daddy we could be stuck at this level for quite sometime or(hate to say this)sink lower/fail to exist

IIRC my calculation was centred on the C club being able to beat ONE SL club, of its 2 home fixtures against SL clubs. It assumed no C club was likely to win an away fixture against an SL club. And unlikely to win both its home fixtures against SL clubs. As such, it could get 8 points and could finish 3rd on points difference.

Leigh have exceeded all expectations (well, mine, anyway) in beating 2 SL sides, one away, and kudos to them for that.




But from the point of view I was discussing, namely the Bulls, I figured that if by taking 1 SL scalp you could get 8 points then that was the route. What you have to take into account is that in our case assuming Leigh won the Championship and we were 2nd, then we get 2 home games against SL teams that finished 9 and 11, and away against 10 and 12. The idea was that Home to 11 (and I suppose as an alternative, although stretching a point) away at 12, were the non-delusional target games.

The problem in even thinking about getting 10 points - in my scenario - was that that involves not only beating TWO SL teams - but also winning Away at Leigh. But 8 points looking theoretically "doable".

If of course a team wins the Championship, then the Away Championship fixture is against the team that finished in C4 which is a much easier task. However for that team to get 10, still must include either winning all home games including beating 2 SL clubs, or failing that, beat one SL club home plus another one away.


Your memory is playing tricks, Wakefield did melt down, just sadly didn't melt down quite close enough to the end of the season, so managed to panic-regroup and shore themselves up just enough (as it turned out), but yes I would say it is fair to say Wakey were still affected by their meltdown,and were still highly vulnerable, and that on the day we could and perhaps should have beaten them. In my view, they didn't beat us, we beat ourselves. It was there for the taking and we failed.

I am totally with him there. Automatic promotion likely does take two wins. It need not necessarily though, I think it could be done with one in the unlikely situation that your own PD and that of others is kind. A SL team could lose to one CH team that is a genuine contender having already lost to a team that you hadn't yet got out of the mind frame of treating lightly. And now it's more a question of a side being relegated on merit rather than one being promoted. I think there are a couple of different paths to automatic promotion.

For the MPG everything is on the line and all participants know it. That is unlikely to go well for the CH side.

Broadly agree with this. And I don't think it's too much to ask
Regarding point 2 I would be pleasantly surprised if EVERY squad member contributes. I cannot think of one team in Superleague or the championship where the fans have not had cause to criticise at least one squad member, often a new squad member. And there's been some notable examples. This year Owens at Saints and Lineham at the Wolves spring to mind.

At present we have a 2017 squad of 29 players, 6 of whom have been promoted from the Academy .It seems likely that a further 2 will be signed. That will mean that 14 players each match will not be playing - some injured, some out of favour or form. Of course there will be some rotation but Smith gives me the impression that he is not a Tinkerman and rotation will be limited.
I expect ( hope I'm wrong) that at least 3 of the squad will suffer long term injuries and at least 2 will not cut the mustard.
However I doubt that any player signed by Smith will fail because of a poor attitude.

Does this indicate Koukash has decided to support Salford next year? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37287051

Does this indicate Koukash has decided to support Salford next year? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37287051

Quote ="Mirfieldbull"Does this indicate Koukash has decided to support Salford next year? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37287051'" Think it'll depend on if they go down or not, cant see him sticking around if they do go down.

Quote ="Mirfieldbull"Does this indicate Koukash has decided to support Salford next year? www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/37287051'" Think it'll depend on if they go down or not, cant see him sticking around if they do go down.

Back to my infamous spreadsheets, here is an updated version, with results to date, plus hypothetical outcomes for the remaining fixtures. As can be seen, two team finish joint 3rd on a mere 8 points, and so one gets the auto SL spot on Points Difference. It is funnier this year as the two are both SL clubs, but the principle is just the same

Huddersfield are already on 6 points...

It could still all go wrong for Leigh if:

Hudds beat Leigh and Leeds
Leigh lose to Leeds and Hudds
Rovers beat London, Huddersfield and Featherstone

Hmm. Playing around with it, I can theorize a three way tie. Now that would be inetresting

It was the comment about someone managing the salary cap, which would be focused on 2017 that made me think he's decided to stick around. FWIW, if HKR play as badly as they did for 60 mins on Saturday again, they'll be the one going down in my opinion.

It was the comment about someone managing the salary cap, which would be focused on 2017 that made me think he's decided to stick around. FWIW, if HKR play as badly as they did for 60 mins on Saturday again, they'll be the one going down in my opinion.

I see the point you are making but you are far from the only team to run us close this year.

We have also played Fev and London 3 times.

Played Fev once at home and twice away and all 3 have been extremely close matches going right to the death much like when we played Bradford.

London we played twice at home and won both by just 4 points. Weirdly we absolutely stuffed them down in London.

Batley beat us by 2pts away and ran us all the way at home losing by just 7.

Sheffield ran us very close at home and were 1 minute away from beating us away before Gaz Hock saved the day.

Fact is there are loads of games that have been extremely close this season but in the end we came out on top nearly every time. I count 11 Leigh games this season with just 1 score or less in it. Plus a couple of 7 point wins and a couple of 8 point wins only decided by a late penalty or DG.

Small margins in individual games but the common theme seems to be that although we aren't always at our best we are nearly always capable of doing enough over 80 minutes to come out on top be it against Sheffield at home or Hull KR away.

Again I do not see your point. Do you mean if Bradford had played someone else then they would have made the middle 8's? Well that rules finishing above Batley out as they were 3 points in front so I guess another team you could have played was Fev but they beat you so thats not a given but then again Fev could say they could have played someone other than Fax so they may have won as well.......................................We could go on and on but the reason that both Bradford and Fax did not finish in the top 4 is because over the season we were worse than the teams above us and to even argue Bradford were close to Leigh is laughable. To think anyone will bridge the gap between Leigh/Ex SL club next season is almost as funny.

My comments are borne out of frustration. We are constantly told how good Leigh are and yet when our lazy fekas got their fingers out they were withing a total of 6 points over 3 games. And this with some other muppet coming up with a 'no half-back' offence. To have lost 7 games in this league is unforgivable. I do agree with you that where you finish in the league does not lie and that you end up where you deserve. I suppose we are a reverse of Leicester in that the team was less than the sum of it's parts.
As Scarlett O'Hara said 'Tomorrow is another day' so roll on next season and good luck GFB to you and Fax.

Dont worry, I more than feel your frustration after this season.