In May of this year the club made 2014 season tickets available on an advance payment plan. Right when they knew the money wasn't their to pay tax bills & wages.

Was it Khan who put money in to cover these, or was it more borrowing?

Dangling from a rope somewhere? I'd imagine even he is finding it hard to put up with what's going on.

PS: and as for those plunkers that think a budget is reality, you try running a business, let alone a sports club business. The only thing that ensures a budget is reality is a SUGAR DADDY. eg Huddersfield..:

J.c: nearly said that myself. But wherever Sir Adey is, lets hope he rests in mental peace free from bullters.

Lets see what hard facts these stargazers have used for their astonishing predictions centuries before the events. Indeed, competition time, what is the collective noun for trolls that forecast events after they have happened?

The £200k monthly wage bill seems realistic, and I think I saw this figure in the T&A when the first monthly wage payment was missed. At the time I remember people making the same argument re the salary cap, and I seem to remember a RAB poster (maybe Mat or Maislebugs) stating that this figure was for all the staff, not just playing roster. And that this monthly figure had reduced from about £350k per month, from the year before.

If you don't count things like the Bartercard deal or the sponsorship of the popular terrace.

Not saying things are rosy at Bradford, in fact I haven't said that at all during this whole thing, however YOU consistently ignore facts and figures that deviate away from your predictions of doom as well as make up figures and quotes then claim them as facts.

The £200k a month wages figure has often been used in Bradford T&A pieces on the Bulls.

Why even mention he's putting money into a business he solely owns? You need to ask those who deal with him about his ego.

Khan has funded Sutcliffe's political career for years. Of course he's going to big his pal up. Whitcut has worked with Khan for years, of course he's going to big his pal up.

Tax bills don't get filed & forgotten about. They get ignored until court action is imminent. You forget that the previous incarnation of the Bulls went under owing HMRC £500k. How is football to blame for this?

You need to wise up about what is going on behind the scenes at your club

I tell you what then Ryan, assuming of course you are reading this, when the club stops making itself a target for these comments then you may well get your wish. The honeymoon period is long over for the new regime and it is time to start putting things right off the pitch.

You were all happy to take the plaudits when OK and GS rode in on their horse like the saviours of the world. How then can you not take the "stick" when it is deserved? A bit two-faced is it not?

This season has been a PR disaster of epic proportions, culminating in yet another season without play off rugby, a half d attitude on the pitch and a desperate attempt to get season ticket sales when the goods on display are undeserving of coughing up for.

We have had the "one hour shop sale" disaster at the start of the season, the pathetic treatment of a club employee who was sacked by locksmith, the "missed payment oversight". Not to forget Jay Willey-gate. I have spent longer in a barbers shop than she spent at the club and I have been bald for years.

Oh, and social media? A bit like our owners' use of twitter to have a pop at an ex-player? (The same owner who allegedly terminated the employment of a club employee for mis-use of social media?)

What next?

The fans are commenting on issues that are arising from within the club. We are not making thing up, merely commenting on what has become knowledge in the public domain.

Take a look around. People are voting with their feet. There is only so much that people can take. Luckily for the club, we seem to have an extraordinary amount of gullible followers who will be spoon-fed by the "PR" and sign up for another season. These fans deserve better than what they get.

So if you are so precious that you cannot take the negative comments from people on social media then perhaps it is time to start getting up back to a place that we can all be proud of. A well run club that is not seemingly shooting itself in the foot at all times.

Also. Perhaps worth remembering that plenty of these people who you seem to wish to censor are people who are putting their money into the club. Essentially they are helping pay your wages. Hopefully you will get them on time.

All the financial facts and figures in the world make little difference to the reality that after 10 home games this season, there was not enough money in the bank to pay the salaries of the staff. You can argue that the wages aren't 200k or any other pedantic points, the facts are that 11 months into the brave new dawn, the club was skint and reliant on the benevolence of Mr K. He is to be applauded BTW for actually stumping up some cash and this points to him being in it for the longer run.
As for those that say Mr K and his guys need time to learn how to run a sports club......

I'd suggest that's the last thing they need to do. Looking at other clubs in similar positions (mine included BTW), they need to be run like a business first and foremost....and that means not projecting wildly inflated ST sales to start with!

BTW...Did they miss wages payments and tax bill payments because they were too busy reading "RL Clubs for Dummies"?

What is the Bartercard deal? How on earth is it going to bring in £100k+ a year when there are only 55,000 cardholders worldwide?

Season tickets for 2014 being offered on payment plans in May? Juts when money was in short supply to pay tax bills & wages?

this is getting a bit repetitive but here we go:

How many and how much for these 2014 season tickets? how much was the tax bill and how much were the wages?

Seeing as you know so much about OKs personal finances, why dont you tell us instead of all this teasieweasie? and per the previous post, what loan for how much over what period with what covenants?

facts please boffaboy. When you have got them correct, you will then have the same facts that I used at the time to deduce the issues you are retrotractively commenting on four months later. Just try to get ahead of the game, not four months behind it.

davyz etc yes if £200k is what you are saying now after initially stating £280K, that is more realistic. Having written press releases myself and paid Pr companies to do an even better job, I am totally cynical about anything in the press (let alone bloggs) not substantiated by independent facts - as you may have guessed. so the £200k may actually be inflated with other things sort of wage related, just to show what a big amount can be paid off in one go. Which, all wages or not, is a big amount.

My workings out were 1000 x £280.00 = £280,000

Take away the tax that needed to be paid on this figure (hoping the club now understand the need to pay a tax bill on time) and it will leave you with close to the £200,000 figure for salaries.

Not an exact science, but that was my thinking.

btw, It's a sad day when I'm having an adult debate/discussion with the trolls and getting attitude from the 'Bulls Family'. I get that people are passionate, but some of the 'attitude' on this thread makes poor reading.

Concerns were raised at fans forums around the time the payment plan was introduced, and the club gave fans assurances that any monies received for 2014 STs would be ring-fenced and not spent during the 2013 season.
Now you can choose to believe them, or you can say they were lying to us all. I somehow get the feeling that you will be choosing the latter option.

If you believe everything you read in the press, more fool you. Sorry, yes you are.

You said he had been bulling himself up, I asked you to show me where he himself said anything, you have come up with nothing.

Sutcliffe simply stated he was not a sugar daddy. That is not bulling him up, friend or not. it is clearly a statement of fact. It warns people that he does not have limitless funds of money and so things could get tricky in the future. and yet somehow you have turned that into Gerry worshipping Ok for putting billions into the club.

No, as I have to do that myself it is not usual to forget about tax bills. But I also refer to the fact that the court case was a dismissal of a case meaning settlement of the debt. I was not blaming football for the bulls going under owing £500k. What football, through raising a footballer who may already have several million pounds in the bank to the level of preferential creditor over and above HMRC and other creditors who may not have been paid for debts of a lot longer standing than the fall-over boys, have made sure that HMRC jump are oversensitive to sports clubs generally.

As previously stated, I was wise months ago, before all this, yes as OK has stated through Gerry, he is not going to solely fund the problems, so of course I am concerned. But nonetheless I prefer facts to nonsense.

and on that note, nothing from the gutter press yet.

Already understood in that previous post that the £280k was a bit of a red herring by my agreement with £200k as a starting point, and hopefully I have managed a bit of a different tone with a family member ie purely factual rather than with scurrilous embellishments on user names. The only attitude i have is for facts (admitedly whoever is posting) but more importantly, against otherworldly trolls that think they are telling us news. reminds me of the definition of a consultant: someone who tells you the time, using your own watch. Yes, the bulls have problems, we all know. if they could come up with answers, then welcome trolls!!!

Really??? Think there is someone else who needs a reality check on here.

I've read many a post from you this year and it seems to me that you are one of a few who really have a problem with the owners and appear determined to stick the knife in at any given opportunity.

I'm not entirely sure why... I have my own suspicions why but i'll leave them off this forum.

The fact is that the new administration told us that it would take 3yrs to get this club back on the right road. They told us this at the first fans forum. They also warned us that the playing staff would take time to turn around. You dont just get to overhaul a crap team in 3months so why you expected anything better than last year i'll never know. I guess this doesn't matter as you, after all it wouldn't give you anything to complain about, would it?

The deal with the one hour sale was misguided but similar ploys happen in business all the time (I've booked tickets for shows only to see them slashed days later... just one of those things).

The sacking of the shop manager.... we don't know the full facts, Jay Willey.... we don't know the full facts, you get the message (or maybe you don't???)... YOU DON'T KNOW THE FACTS!!!

Why is this "stick" deserved when you actually know very little about the true facts. You seem to know very little about the real world at all in fact.

Ryan Whitcut has complained at the false speculation and bad press (yes something you've been very good at this last year) and has moved to put an end to this. He also says that his door is always open, something I've found out myself when I've been concerned by a few things. Its amazing what can happen when you ask. I wonder if you have given him or others an opportunity to put their own side forward before spouting what can only be described as unfounded and nauseating bile.

I've said it before and i'll say it again... You're either a fan (and if you would like me to given you a definition, please don't hesitate to ask for one

) or you're not... which one are you???

The answer for Bradford?
Stop thinking you're a top 4 team...accept mid table competitiveness and get the "community feel" back to your club. Tempting people with cheap tickets is a race to the bottom.....deliver a product on and off the field that the entire family want to be associated with. Make Sunday at 3pm Bull Time....family's should plan their Sunday Lunch around the Bradford Bull at Home.... maybe do a Bulls version of come dine with me where rabid bulls fan family's take it turn to host each other....get it going on-line, in the programme etc...
Make an Event of EVERY home game...once the fixtures are out, plan 13 themed events and publicise them well....send every local school/club a book of 500 tickets telling them they can keep half the revenue from sales.....carry out CRM surveys on what people liked about their visit to your ground and what could do with improving.
On the Park, invest what you can afford.....if you rob peter to pay paul, you end up with your hand out AGAIN!

begging/bribing fans to come to games ain't a good look and in the end, it ultimately fails. If you want fan loyalty, then you have to earn it!

I resent being referred to as a troll.....I want all 14 teams and the clubs below to do well and makes my blood boil when I see the clusterf**king going on



Good luck for 2014,

The worst aspect of mystic eddie's attitude is that he despises and denigrates precisely those persistent fans who are actually keeping the club alive:


See? If I was not so "gullible", if like ME and others I could just "see the truth", then I would NOT sign up for another season, nobody would, we would have an attendance of Zero, and everything would then be great.

ME, we are not "gullible", we just love our team and we just love going to watch our team. And for most of us, that's how it always was, and always will be, unless people like you get their way, and everyone jumps ship, and the club dies. Your persistent denigration of dedicated Bulls supporters does you no credit.

I think it doesn't help when posters - not just yourself but in general - seem to only make comment and pass judgement when it's a negative story.

You should read the comments on our local paper the Telegraph and Argus, there are plenty on there ready to swoop in and tell us how we are when things go even a little bit wrong. Of course this happens at every club but you must see why this sudden and explosive interest in this story (and other previous "bad news" stories) could be deemed trolling?

Regarding your question about using the payment plan.The answer is yes you can, I set up a plan earlier this week and paid the first £60 there and then and 2 payments of £60 will come out on direct debit (November and January I believe).Plus i also got my free away shirt that day as well.

Nice selective quoting there FA. You did, of course, omit the final sentence of the paragraph,



And indeed you do.

Thanks for that, at least that's assured me a little.

Indeed you do.



Come on then, share your suspicions. What do you not have the cojones to accuse me of?



Correct. I do not know the facts. Just commenting on what was reported in the local media (in Gawthorpe-gate) but subsequwntly not denied by the club. In the case of Jay Willey, I did, of course, merely comment about her length of tenure, not the ins and outs of the case. We know the length of her service so it is indeed a fact.



Don't be so silly. What you know about me in order to enable you to make such a claim is curious. Like you say, stick to facts.



Ryan Whitcut would be better served getting his job done properly rather than spending time on social media. If he was not so distracted by what others had to say then he maybe would not forget to pay the bills.



Ok. What exactly is your definition of a fan?

PS, I see you ignored the "Inconvenient Truths" about the club I posted. Is this what a "real fan" does?

No it is NOT selective quoting, it is specifically referring to the thing I specifically intended to object to.

But, you suggest that the extra bit you emphasize makes it somehow better. It doesn't. It makes it worse by adding "bloody patronising" to the mix. You are in no way mitigating your insult that all these fans are just "gullible folowers" who will sign up because they because 'believe all they are spoon fed'.

For your information, pronouncements by the board of Northern / Bulls have NEVER played any part in my decision to keep going to games and supporting my team, and never will. And before you start, I don't claim to be in any way some special case. I would bet the vast majority of diehard season ticket holders would say similar.

Believe everything in the press? Who is doing that? Where did you read the quotes you attribute to Sutcliffe?

The simple fact that Khan has had his bag carriers making a great fuss over his investment in his own business. Are the reports of these people printed in the T&A not to be trusted?

Is only what the club puts out on it's website or through social media to be believed? So when Robbie Paul tried to gloss over the wages being unpaid as an administration error, he was being truthful?

When the club declined to announce it had been subject to a winding up petition by HMRC, it was being open & honest with fans?

No one forgets about tax bills. They ignore them because they haven't got the money to pay them. The club had spent what it should have put aside from income received. This is a business less than 12 months old & already it's governance & financial probity is in serious question.

You blamed football for the HMRC pursuing unpaid tax bills. I simply pointed out that the previous Bulls went under owing HMRC £500k & within just a few months the new incarnation has left HMRC waiting so long it issues proceedings.

Ryan Whitcut has claimed another administration error & claimed that the winding up order being made public is an attempt to destabilise the club. I'd say it was the club being exposed as being very badly run & those responsible trying to deflect the blame, wouldn't you?

The new regime at the Bulls is as rotten, more so with the political tie ups, as the old one that fleeced fans for £400k.

Your crusade to save us is noble, and we the meek thank you for making us see the light. All the heathens will burn.

However, it still doesn't change the fact I like to go watch the rugby, and if it all crumbles down again then I'll go watch them play Rochdale or Keighley.