It was quite a surreal day yesterday. I couldn’t get to my PC so was keeping in touch by iphone, I could tell it was serious as new pages were appearing quicker than I could scroll down the one I was reading. Everything that I think has been said already. I would prefer a community owned model as suggested by Anarkik. I would be happy stumping up £100 but not until I have some confidence that there is a sustainable model. That would include a management team who have more to offer than the current lot, which might seem like stating the bleedin obvious but it just might be that there is no long term solution without a sugar daddy to keep it afloat.

I'm not much further forward to deciding wether I'm going to pledge or not. I'd still like the answers to the questions posed regarding money, and where it went/where its going and what happens next, but I'm agonising over wether or not we want to avoid administration.

I do not believe we'd fold, or cease to exist - but i do realise that if we went into administration we'd lose our players, we'd lose points and possibly lose a super league franchise? do we want that?

or, is that the only way to get rid of the current board, limp along until a buyer is found then start from scratch pretty much? is there anyone who'd even want to buy the club?

I think I will pledge, because the thought of losing the best players suffering a points deduction and getting humped every single week, and possibly losing super league rugby completely is a very dark thought.

If what I am led to believe is correct, if overdue tax liabilities are not settled within the next couple of weeks, HMRC is expected to petition the High Court for a winding-up order. That would immediately require the club's directors to apply to the High Court to appoint an administrator.

Leaving aside how those liabilities arose and came to be unpaid, how long this situation has existed for, why many fans clearly feel they were misled in January and everything else that has shocked and appalled most fans, if this indeed be the case then there seems to be two choices:

1 - Provide the club with cash - by whatever means - so it can settle the pressing liabilities and avoid administration.

2 - Allow the club to go into administration.

It would seem time is of the essence, if administration is to be avoided. I have to say that all this talk of new supporters foundations, trusts or whatever organising fundraising with the intent of securing a shareholding in the club, and thereby providing it with a capital injection, is IMO almost certainly misguided as a means of achieving 1. Do any of you guys considering it have any conception whatsoever of just what would be involved?

As one who does, I have to warn you that IMO you have far far too little time to form a new vehicle to achieve this. Far too little time. It took us months to bring Bullbuilder into being. Go ask Wakey about how long it took them to bring THEIR trust into being. They were trying to do it over the period when their club went belly-up, but they never had anything like the time.

Raising funds in a bucket is the relatively easy part. Anyone ever tried to open a new bank account recently? No bank will do it without there being a properly-constituted entity, with a valid constitution and appointed officers and heaven knows what else. And without a bank account, how can you collect the funds?

I'm not trying to dampen the enthusiasm of those who are looking at this route to solving the immediate cash flow crisis that we are assured exists. Just pleading with those enthusiasts to think it through carefully and understand what the timelines - and the massive time commitment by those who take it on - are likely to be.

Even trying to raise money for a shareholding using an in-situ vehicle (and Bullbuilder is the only one I am aware of that is already set up) would involve a great deal of time and work - as well as a lot more pairs of hands to share the workload, and be there for the long haul not just the sexy initial stage when you can be in the public eye. If the deadline is as pressing as the club says (and I have been assured that it is, for what that may or may not be worth) then I do not believe there is time for even an in-situ vehicle to achieve what is required.

If there was more time, then the situation could be very different.

We come anyway to a second issue. Basically, I would expect the club will likely do its level best to resist any attempt by supporters to acquire collectively a significant shareholding in the club. Why? Because that would immediately make the club a much less attractive proposition to any prospective majority investor. If you were seeking to take a majority stake in a RL club, would you be happy if part of the shares were held by a supporters' collective? Especially if that holding was more than a blocking 25%. And especially if you were considering investing at the present time. And yet a new investor is probably the only long-term solution to the club's situation. We really need a Pearson-type person, to step in and take over the business as a going concern.

And I say that as someone who supports the principle of supporter investment and at least partial-ownership of sports clubs. But as someone who has to reconcile himself to the likely financial realities of the current situation.

So how about the idea, widely promoted by visitors from outside and argued passionately by Maislebugs and others on here, of allowing the club to fold and go into administration? Time right now does not allow me to go into the pros and cons in detail, but it certainly IS an option that warrants careful consideration.

It would allow a new investor - if there is one - to take control and start with a clean sheet. We saw that at Wakey, although with respect to them it was a smaller and rather less complex operation and situation. That is potentially a big benefit, one that the proponents of the administration route are rightly flagging up.

And it would mean the club gets to screw the taxpayer big-time, same way as Wakey and Crusaders and London did, by not paying its debts. remember, we are talking monies that the club collected (or should have collected) from employees, customers and others that was never the club's money. Personally, I find the business of screwing the taxpayer morally repugnant, and have said so repeatedly in the past that in my book it is tantamount to theft, but what I feel counts for nothing in the wider scheme of things.

And what about all the other suppliers to the club? Many are small businesses. Maybe some of you guys work for one of them. Some of you guys ARE ones of them. You get to make your pledge regardless - by not getting paid, and maybe losing your job.

Another downside is that all contracts can get cancelled. For example, the lease with the RFL would be voided. One presumes the RFL would seek to enter into a new lease with whatever phoenix company arose with whom a new lease could be negotiated. But would those terms be as favourable as the present lease? Who knows. At least the head lease would likely not be affected, since that is between the council and the RFL now.

And, most seriously of all perhaps, the administrator would be inundated with offers for our young stars. Doubtless the salary caps of the monied clubs would become even more flexible to accommodate them. The administrator would be duty-bound to consider very seriously any offers received - and a player would anyway be a free agent. Look what happened to Wakey.

There are loads of other considerations, but those are just some quick ones, for and against.

If someone had put together a prepack administration, so that we would be in and out of administration within 24 hours and with the prior agreement of the RFL and the council and the new players' union and other
relevant stakeholders, then administration could well work. If the process dragged on, like Wakey's did, I fear the damage that would be done over that interim period could be irreversible.

Prepacks normally only happen when either the existing management or shareholders, or a party working closely with them, is the purchaser. Otherwise, the time scale involved is far too long. Can we see that happening in this case? I doubt it. And anyway, I can see the proponents of administration understandably and most definitely do NOT want to see the same faces involved.

And what of the prospects of reforming post-administration and playing in the lower leagues? Wouldn't be at Odsal - could not afford it. How many would rally want to watch a team where your very best player was probably well short in ability of those perceived as the worst on our books?

So we have a timescale and other factors that mitigate against a shareholding involvement, and a high-risk administration option that might be salvation or it might lead to oblivion. And then we have the club's own proposal, which is we all chuck a load of money in the bucket for them to use to pay off the taxman and others, and keep the club going, and maybe show to potential investors that the club is worth investing in because of the passion and commitment of its fans.

Short of winning Euromillions, or Ken Morrison shocking us all, those seem to be our alternatives.

Spoilt for choice, aren't we?

fantastic post Adey.

think you just made my mind up for me.

Great post adey. One further thing. Administration would solve the mess that is the shareholding as well as the board. Whilst it's easy to blame individuals, this is actually the real core of the problem which if not dealt with I believe will inevitably bring us back to where are now, only weaker.

I think it was Mick Gleds who metioned something about walking from red hall to odsal good friday............

If this was to go ahead - how about contacting the T&A and people like look north and calendar to see if they can give any coverage to make people aware of waht the bulls fans are doing that day to help the findraising along the way ??

Just a thought

I've made my pledge. Truth is, in the space of less than a fortnight, I don't know what else I [ican[/i do. If the club went belly up and I hadn't done what little I could, I don't think I could look myself in the face.

Just hoping it's not over and out.

I love your ideas ha ha - keep them coming, id be up for this

Sorry yes, that would indeed be a big advantage, and I should have included it.

thanks Adey, out all day yesterday, so your summary most timely and welcome.

If we go into administration we'll lose all the talent we have developed and will have to start from scratch!

Pointing the finger is all well and good but in the mean-time please PLEDGE!

I am not a Bradfordian and do not live there, however i did live there for almost a decade and enjoyed many times up at Odsal. I have put money up for the past two pledges even though i can't get to all the games as i am a Doncaster season ticket holder and resident.
My head tells me not to support this latest pledge as i feel the best way forward is to start again with a new club in the Championships (minus Hood etc), however after i have calmed down since yesterdays anger i have come to the decision that i would not be able to live with the thought that i did nothing and let the Bulls die.
At the end of the day it means our two Bulls season tickets cost £175 each, so there will be £200 on its way from Donny. I just hope i get to see my beloved Dons go head to head with the Bulls in a couple of weeks time.
There can be a good outcome to this if everyone makes the effort, as a Dons fan we know all about admin, points deductions and going bust!
COYB COYD

Losing your young stars would be a worry but it will only happen if other clubs have both the funds to make an administator an offer AND the room on the salary cap to accomodate them. At this stage of the season there surely can't be many that have both those available. The big clubs will be up to pretty much full cap and the smaller ones no money to pay a fee. It would be up to the RFL to police the cap correctly and pervent any clubs getting round it.

Where there's a wire there's a way.

I said yesterday that I couldn't bring myself to do it and that I couldn't bring myself not to either. I am still in this camp, but I am very much edging towards ponying up some cash.

The shamefully low guilt trip is working on me.

Aye, as much as I was adamant I would not give this current board a penny of my hard-earned cash, I'm feeling like I just HAVE to.

The thought of no Bradford Bulls is heart-breaking.

And frankly, seeing the messages of support from others on FB and Twitter has had a strong effect on me too.

Administration is not the best option despite certain pluses, the Club would lose far more than it would gain and the fallow years that would follow will be a longer than so far, to keep the sprit of Trevor Foster living on the Fans have to pay up that is the best option all round, people can save the recriminations for when the Club is back on even keel!

Eighth time I've filled the form in. This time I clicked Submit.

So you submitted in the end, then?

Well done vbfg. We all feel angry and lied to but Ateotd, we still need to stand up and be counted when our club needs us the most.

Again, the motto is this:

Save the club first. Lobby for change second.

Yorkshire post article pretty good reporting:

[urlhttp://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/have-your-say-we-made-mistakes-admit-bulls-after-1m-rescue-bid-1-4391031[/url tax liability has unexpectedly arisen from IH settlement image rights.

so putting all the part information together, there was enough cash for the season without any image rights liability and with the overdraft at the existing level. The timing looks as if both of these have to be paid before the players next get paid, hence the dates given.

What concerns me most is that it appears that there is no cash flow forecast being done by the Bulls. maybe they cant afford to pay someone to do it. if they did have one, then they would have to know when the RFL wanted their loan back so it could be plugged into the forecast, and anyone doing it would be aware of issues such as security and the consequences of not having any for the overdraft.

Aye, heart over head maybe but I can't sit back and watch the club die. I honestly do not see any way back from this. I accept all the arguments from the Wakefield fans and agree wholeheartedly with what they had to say. Administration might be the better option, but that is contingent on having somewhere to play. Both options are gambles, but going into admin and hoping for a sugar daddy who hasn't arrived despite many opportunities to do so seems like the bigger gamble to me right now.

If we had a stadium with low running costs then maybe, but if this club goes under now it ain't coming back.

Let's try and fix that if we can and figure out where we are.

Admirable idea.

Do you think once their investment is secure with their free gift of £500k the board will accept lobbying for change?

I don't. I am developing a real haterd of the people who are putting the fans of your club in this position. If, as many who appear in the know are suggesting, there is no alternative to this, it seems all the more cynical that this board has engineered a situation where you're all left with no clear way to keep your club than to bail them out with an obligation-free donation.

They deserve to lose out on their investments, you lot don't deserve to lose your club. Bad situation. I feel for you.