The truth maybe?

Might be something in that. Think part of the problem is Bulls v1.0 were sold as "unstoppabull" etc. This lot clearly aren't yet there has no move by the club to sell the team as underdogs, battlers, whatever.

Maybe a bit more creativity in that area is needed. Why should people go see Bradford these days. My main answers would be
1. They are a historic institution nearing 150 years old (club won't have this for some reason even though 1964 is a bigger cut off point than 1907)
2. It would be a crying shame to let the efforts of Trevor Foster, Joe Phillips etc over the years go to waste by letting the club die.
3. The majority of Bulls games are worth watching, even if they aren't always won, even yesterday. And every now again you get a belter (Saints away 09, Wigan home 10).

I know a lot of people would look at those three reasons and say they're not enough. But others might go for it if there was a concerted effort to put these three strands across.

I'd prefer not to be told where making signings to whet the appetite then see players like Sibbitt, Walker, Raynor walk through the gates.

Toddle off then, don't let the door smack your ar*e on the way out!

Tbf my last post sort of meets you halfway on that one. But they can hardly say "Our new signings are unlikely to whet your appetite", can they?

I think it's time for actions to speak louder than words! We've heard all the reasonings and excuses most of us can put up with, it all amounts to nothing. We want pride in the shirt, entertaining Rugby and even win a couple of games at Home!I don't want to hear about what we are doing on the Training Field, I want to see it on Game Day. Not much to ask is it?

All those things have been delivered at times this year, though not consistently enough. But in the mean time, the club have to take a vow of silence?

I agree. There were many Catalans fans here who did not renew their season tickets and are now regretting it!

Things can get better.

Nope, I just want the actions to speak for themselves! The Marketing Team have done their bit, it's up to the Playing Staff to do their bit! But I don't want to hear excuses from the Coach or Team.....Surely they must have used them all bu now?

Watching yesterday was just like watching the same match (and from the same place...) last year. Profoundly depressing. It is hard to say we have made progress whatsoever. don't envy Andrew Bennett's task for next season.

Our wins have been more evenly distributed throughout the year this season, does that count?

And that's what I'm getting at - we all know that they need to do more on that front. But can it happen, with these players, this coach and this board? To an extent the first two can be replaced, but the last?

So far.

Should we manage to win the majority of our remaining games I would feel a bit happier. But can you see us finishing higher than last year? Based on yesterday? We were clueless in much of the second half. As soon as we had a try disallowed, I said to Mission and Mission's dad and BB that we'd now blow it and concede at the other end straight after, and guess what? As sure as eggs is eggs... so bloody predictable.

Just not good enough.

My concern is that we have had to offer improved contracts to Heath & BK to keep them and relatively speaking have less money to spend than this year

This is just for the players who played against Catalan.

Kearney - did well I suppose, dealt with practically every kick that came his way. The double movement was absolutly stupid, should have got a quick PTB, we would have probably scored or Catalans wouldn't have. Ran some great lines and returning the ball was as good as usual. Not the fastest but pretty quick over a short distance. Passing is great as shown for Raynor try, rather have Brett in the halves though.

Crookes - average/poor. In all fairness he's not a winger. He is pretty strong for a young kid, however he is too slow. He comes looking for work but in this game didn't do as much. His defence can be strong when he wants but positioning is awful, what on earth was he doing for Catalans last try. In attack he hardly gets ball (in oppositions half), 13 games for us and 0 tries says it all. He a good back-up player but need to aim higher for a starting Centre/Winger for 2012.

Ah Van - can be ace when he wants to be. Again though he isn't a Centre. 9 tries this season shows this, he's a big unit and he can be strong. His defence can be good as shown against Wigan. However in the last few games he has been beyond poor. Only in for goal-kicking. If he can get back to what he was like before the St Helens game then keep unless we get a better player on quota.

Platt - lacks a good rugby brain. Makes some stupid mistakes, looking for offload on 1st, 2nd tackle. Picking ball up in an offside position. But on his day he can be a good player unfortunatly his 'day' doesn't appear as often as it should. Has potential to be a very solid Centre. Attack isn't the best, but again doesn't get any ball. 1 try this season. He needs to look for more work too. Defence he can be solid and not miss many but lately he doesn't seem to be as good.

Raynor - easily one of the most consistent players this year. Always looking for work, and makes many metres which helps the forwards out. He's 32/33 and can still outpace the younger ones, he definatley has speed to burn but as a team we don't use this much. Hardly got a touch for the first half of the season. But starting to get it a little more now. Good awareness for his try against Catalan. And very good in defence, his 90m chasedown against Wakey and his 2 try saving tackles against Catalan. He is a must keep for 2012.

Jeffries - when he first joined he was a breath of fresh air to the team, however that breath is wearing off a bit. Is a good link up man but the other half hardly links up. Good hands and a good brain. Runs some great lines for a half, as shown against Catalans. Is suspect to some stupid mistakes and dumb moments, trying to beat Menzies on the outside when he should have come in. He is contracted for next season, based on what we've seen Briggs would be best to partner him as they work very well togetherand have the potential to dismantle the top teams. Or a Kearney/Jeffries partnership could work. He also didn't have a pre-season with us to build partnerships etc. See how he goes in 2012 before deciding to extend his contract or let him go.

Herbert - shown improvement but we are definatley missing Deacon or Orford. Some of his passes are brilliant, Elima's try, however the majority are bad. Kicking game is improving, his attacking kicks have been decent-great all year but his positional kicks over the season are poor. I don't think Dureau kicked 1 POSITIONAL kick straight to our FB or Wingers but Herbert kicked 2. Okay he practically won the Leeds game but 1 great game is not enough for a 7. He should be dominating play regulary, we as a team played a hell of a lot better with the Briggs/Jeffries combo. His tackling is exceptional for a halfback and he doesn't miss many. The fans are starting to like him, if he improves on his game and plays every match at his best then we should consider keeping him. However for now he should go and free up a quota spot for 2012.

Hargreaves - does a lot of unnoticed work, lots of good metres and tackles well. However he thinks he is a halfback lol always looking to pass when it comes off great (Lynchs try vs Crusaders). He's not a 'limelight' player but a grafter and does his job well. Contracted for 2012 so should be starting prop with Lynch.

Diskin - played well, gets the team lots of penalties. His go forward is great and attacks the line, I believe we have the best hooker combo in the league with Disko and L'Estrange. Diskin is the only player that tried to control the game when the halfbacks should have. His tackling is good but does get bounced off a lot. Needs to go lower imo. And as a hooker myself doing 80 mins is very hard so those fans calling for him to do 80 need to re-think. He should be the starting hooker in 2012 with Heath comin off the bench.

Lynch - work ethic is amazing, okay he hardly breaks the line anymore but his metre making is incredibull. His offloads are mostly good. His tackling however is going downhill. Runs hard and runs fast, not captain material but is definatly a leader on the pitch. Trouble is with the Bulls is we rely on Lynch barging over all the time when we should spread the ball more. Starting prop without question in 2012.

Elima - is a monster, one of the most consistant players. Found his feet in attack now and is scoring some good tries. 7 tries and one of our top try scorers. Runs hard and runs some great line. In defence well just look at the Saints game, always getting 30 plus tackles a game and those tackles are hard ones, he smashes players and rarely misses when tackling, hes a dependable player. Needs to be kept for longer than 2012.

Whitehead - okay he's 21. Still got a long career ahead of him. Played okay against Catalan but I feel that this year is his arrogant year, most kids have them, this is the year where he thinks he is better than he is. This will pass and will get over it. Made some good meters in both positions he's been in. And his try scoring is good, 8 tries this season. His ball handling is good, that dummy against Hull KR last year, double dummy vs Fax this year. Tackling was good but has slowly become poorer however he still puts in some great shots, needs to play at Second Row. If he carries on ability-wise he will be competing for an England shirt in the future. Good homegrown player, glad we have him for another 2 seasons at least. Needs extension after that.

Kopczak - played his 100th game for us against Catalan. Vastly improved from last year, making breaks all the time. That spin ad half break against Catalan shows how far he's come. He is not aggresive player but makes metres and finds his front a lot. His tackling is good, one of the most consistent players in the team. Again glad we have him until 2013 but needs an extension after that.

Scruton - I think he's still getting up to speed after coming back from an injury. Runs hard and runs some good lines (his 2 tries vs Castleford). Him and Elima bring the pain in defence, but Scruton just needs to stay in the line a bit more. Hes always involved and always looking for work.

Donaldson - how did he get up from that high tackle? Good player, he and Orford ripped Warrington apart in last years QF however after a bad injury I think he was afraid to damage it more by going all out. But now he is starting to look like the Donaldson of last year, always looking for work and his tackling is immense, hes still only 20 but give it a few years and I think he could be another Langley. He is a running LF. Contract ends this year, need to re-sign him.

Addy - will play wherever you ask him to play. He isn't a hooker but not doing a bad job tbh. Always jumping out and getting runners off him. Not afraid to have a go himself, he's just a temporary option until Heath comes back. He is a LF and could b a ball-playing one if Potter uses his tactics right, he could be the key to beating teams, whenever a ball playing LF col benefit the side Addy should play but if its a forwards battle then Langers etc. Tackling not the best, needs to go low. But we have him for another year.

Burgess - can't believe it got to the point where we was brining Burgess on to try wrap up a game against a team with 12 men, he's 18 for god sake. Always runs well and this is the second game where he has tore holes in the defence, great strength for his try (Paea is a big man but Tom pushed him aside). Tackling is good but needs to get on his feet quicker. Always wiling to run and quite often takes 2 drives in a set. Only does 10 mins here and there because we don't want to mess his body up. Ease him in this year then next year he will be a dominant player. Hope he doesn't join his brothers in Sydney as he would just be known as a Burgess brother, here he has a chance to make Tom Burgess be a household name.


Mick Potter - needs to start picking the team on talent and teamwork. Not just pick his favourites. Kearney at 6 and Royston at 1 would benefit the team more even though Kearney is the best fullback we have. Also playing Crookes over Royston or Finigan or even Halley before he left? Shad and Vinny would do better on the Wing. Even playing Crookes in the Centres and Ah Van on the Wing would be better. Also messing about in the halves for most of the year, no need Briggs and Jeffries were going extremely well. The crap he comes out with sometimes is unreal, hes not aggresive enough when we are poor. Don't get me wrong he has a hard job, the re-building will take a while but it seems that the players ARE goo enough on paper but the tactics and plays let them down, he cannot motivate the team. Credit where credit is due he has a good track record and doing the best he can but in my opinion we need a Brian Smith/Brian Noble type coach. But will properly judge him after 2012 whichis looking better with the signing of Lulia so we are improving so to speak.

Is there any explanation emanating from the club as to why we appear unlikely to sign Leon?

Appreciate what you're saying but think what others are alluding to is a more cynical, even systematic presentation of 'stories' both in our local paper and through word of mouth that when viewed over time are inconsistent or timed to divert attention from other matters. In all these cases there may be valid reasons for what has occurred but it is certainly a recurring theme. The constant over hyping of our youth system has placed massive pressure on the young lads who have, in my view done OK in a poor side. Connor has mentioned the return of Leon on a number of occassions and defended himself on twitter, saying he writes nothing without foundation, only to later bury the news of Leon not signing under a non story about Seymour, who also wasn't signing. The Orford 'story'? It's not in Connor's remit to hold the Bulls to account and of course we accept that the T and A must promote the club and maintain good relations but Hood said, 'signings to whet the appetite'. It's not outright dishonesty but there is a near constant whiff, to use an Amercianism, of BS.

It's not outright dishonesty but it certainly leaves you with that feeling.

Seymour - I am given to understand (and NOT from the club) that Seymour was far,far from a "non-story". Maybe drop one of the directors a line to ask them?

Orford - I have said previously that I have seen no evidence of anything that the Bulls could or should have "been held to account" for over what happened there. Indeed, quite the opposite; the club was in an extremely difficult position, and one day, eventually, the truth will come out. And I too will not write something without foundation. Maybe if you had a quiet word with one of the directors, they might tell you more than they can say publically, to perhaps allay some of your concerns?

Neither of these points have a direct bearing on the shambolic, demoralising display we saw again in the second half on Saturday. But, nevertheless, it is all too easy to have a go at the club over matters where, for whatever reason, they are precluded from properly responding (Harrisgate was of course another)

TBF I have not read or heard anything of the Bulls super youth policy apart from via those on here who were using it as a deflection for Maccas increasingly depressing results. There might have been things in the T&A but as I never buy it I wouldn't know.

So somebody (NOT from the club) told you something? But you don't write 'something without foundation'?

And I should contact the directors so they could privately explain why what appears in the T and A, presumably with the assent of the press department at Odsal, is inconsistent?

The club should, indeed must be held to account for not signing a SL standard half back. Who else could possibly be responsible and how is this not directly related to what happened on the field, not just this weekend but only too often this season?

On Orford, a poster no less than FA, hardly an ally of mine, summed it up perfectly at the time and I'm not sure what your seeing no evidence is meant to tell us.

On Sundays performance i am afraid to say it Season over unless somebody can convince me otherwise

My comment about Seymour did not come from the club. It came from someone who I regard as being both qualified to comment and very likely to know more of the facts than pretty well anyone on here.

I said nothing about the T&A. I suggested you should go ask the club directly if you want more chance of getting facts, since you implied it was a club smokescreen. Go ask, rather than snipe from the sidelines? That is what I have done in the past. Unless of course you are not interested in learning any inconvenient truths?

I did not say the club should not be held to account over not signing a SL-standard half back. And neither did you. You referred to "The Orford story", and it was that to which I was responding.

Not having Pryce, Seymour or Orford in the squad on Saturday cannot have had a direct bearing on what we saw.

Anything else disingenuous you want to attribute to me?

I have concluded that as a team we turn out to be not good enough to make the playoffs, and that for a side like Bradford Bulls is a disaster. We are in a re-building phase, and no realists expected any better than a low end playoffs position, but we expected I think a big improvement on the standard of play (chiefly ball retention, discipline, organisation in defence) and taking the season as a whole, we have not got it. Neither the league table, or the points Against column, lie.

Having said that, you'd have to be pretty churlish to moan at the value of a £60 season ticket. When the team crashes and burns itself like against Catalans then there are many moans but be honest, there was plenty of good stuff during the game that had the crowd up on its feet. The result puts the dampers, I realise that, but are you saying it somehow extinguishes the enjoyable parts of the game, as if they had never happened? I don't think so.

More to the point, it's easy to forget that we don't in fact lose every week, or play badly all the time.

Bulls 14-14 St Helens - did you not get any value from that?

Bulls 22 - 30 Lucky, lucky Leeds - nevertheless a touch of value received there I suggest?

We beat Harlequins at home. We beat Salford. We beat Castleford. We beat Wakefield.

I am as frustrated and disappointed as most at the season as a whole, but one thing that is unfair is to whinge at the value to be had from a £60 season ticket. You are paying £60 for a reason, even if that reason isn't officially proclaimed. You are not getting a ticket to watch Barca or Manchester United. I am sure that a similar offer would next season have a similar take-up. And I cite the case of Bradford City, who continue to sell the tickets despite being terminally useless, year after year.

Against Catalans, did you applaud the team off at half time? Most seemingly did. If so - why?

Was it the same person who told you about Steve Parkin?

I have contacted the club asking about what happened vis a vis Orford and was told it could not be discussed for legal reasons. I am not sniping from the sidelines, I am a long standing season ticket holder and purchaser of merchandise.

You have previously stated that recruitment was held up because of the Orford situ. The lack of credible halves was evident on saturday.

I don't understand the 'disingenuous' comment.

I would gladly pay £60 to watch Keighley for a season if circumstances allowed me to watch them regularly. I would want them to win but wouldn't be too concerned if they didn't as I love the sport more than a team. Even though Bradford's tactics are pretty defensive, concentrated around the PTB rather than flowing rugby, there have been some exciting, close results, as well as good displays from the opposition, well worth £60 of anyone's money.