The more I read of this thread, the more I first admire the passion of so many people who are prepared to stump up the cash to save the club, but the more I then feel genuine anger that it seems to me that the chancer in charge of the clubs is using that passion to fleece you all. I hope I'm wrong.

I still think you could go into administration and still get a franchise next time if the new club was trading well. I think Hood and Co are trying to get the fans to save their business interests, not the club.

Hopefully I'm wrong. One way or another I hope (and think) the Bulls will survive. I just think this pledge idea stinks to high heaven.

are you sure slugger , this is taken from another forum

Re: Interesting stuff from RW
by Gloria » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:19 am

Some serious rumours coming out that Wakefield players are a month behind with wages!

But what if it doesn't work?

What if the club raises £500k from the fans, but cant find the extra £500k that the Board says is needed, stumbles on and then goes bust at the end of the season?

The £500k would effectively have gone to RBS, HMRC, npower (or whoever) and the other credtors. I wouldnt begrudge the tiny portion of my £100 that went to pay the wage arrears but apart from that I'd be fairly peeved.

And if it doesnt work, what are the chances that the fans will dip into their pockets again to find another £500k to launch a new club? Might it not be better if we held on to our £100 now and use it later to start afresh? I'd happily pay a lot more than £100 in those circumstances.

I expect that if the fans do find the £500k it will be much easier for the Board to sell the club as a going concern. But until we know who would want to buy it, and more importantly why, that might be a case of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

500K now to form a supporrters trust with clout, rather than plug holes in a sinking ship, would give a great foundation of a reformed club. how many of us could give again in 3,6,12 months????

I'm in the same place too.

Listening to the fans from Wakey I do wonder if admin might be the way to go. We need a fresh start and maybe admin is the only way to get it?

Back in the mid 80s the T&A ran a series called "The Shame of Odsal" and then chairman Jack Bates said the club were 48hrs from closure. The club was run like a private members club. There were appeals to the fans to come to games to increase attendances but the feeling was that they wanted our money but they didn't want us. There are a lot of paralells with the situation now.

Now we have club officials talking about "the people's team" and appealing for money based on the promise of a "business plan going forward" whatever that means.

For the past 6 years we've been treated like mushrooms by the board (kept in the dark) Despite many assurances and carefully worded replies to questions at fans fora it appears the club have never really been honest about how strapped for cash we actually are. One minute we're told Odsal is a drain on resources, the next it's never been a problem. Now we're up the creek I think the club need to be honest. Let's see the business plan published and see if it stacks up.

Personally I'd be more likely to stump up (and with more cash) if it were for shares. As it is I'm really torn. I want what's best for the club long term, after 32 years of going to Odsal I don't know what I'd do without it. But I simply don't have confidence in the current board. Going into Admin seems to be a gamble and I'm no gambler....

As you can see I'm no further forward!

What a load of CRAP

If the current Bulls organisation manage to raise the funds to pay April's bills, where does that leave us in May, June etc.. and going forward?

BY November / December we will be in the same mess that led us to go cap in hand to the RFL in the first place.

STop the rot now! Let the company as it is now, fold. They tell us theres no debt other than the overdraft (Not sure I believe them!) so will I lose sleep over RBS being a few hundred grand down? NO!

The RFL wont bail this lot out, but I'd bet that they would support, in expertise and financially, a new company that has no involvemnet from the current lot. I am sure in the past theyve even placed directors on boards where clubs have been struggling!

They have, quite directly, by accepting Odsal's lease to cover a loan, secured Rugby League in Bradford. If we folded and the lease was held by the club, the council would sell it off to raise funds, as they are strapped too!

RBS simply saw the club as a bad risk. In todays climate, a company need to be honest with their bankers. we were not.

Hood and the board are to blame. They have been dishonest. An overdraft is a debt. selling Odsal's lease did not make us debt free. we were operating on cash that was not ours! if we were debt free, we would not have an overdraft!

I hope those of you pledging understand that the 500K that may be raised only secures the club in the very short term. Even hood has said they would need between 3-500K more to get to the end of the year. Then what?

We need to listen to the fans whose clubs have been through similar experiences. The wakefield fan (Plastic armadillo??? has been there and we can learn from their experiences. We need to remove the emotion ( to quote MAtthew Elliot) and look at things logically.

A club is based on trust, and I for one, have none in Peter Hood. He has failed at every level and accepts no responsability. He would rather blame everyone else rather than be honest. sometimes in life you have to hold up your hands and say I tried, but I failed. Hood seems incapable of doing this!

This, sums it all up for me

I want the opportunity to pledge to the club. However, I firmly believe the main impediment to the club moving forward is the combination of board and shareholding. I've argued this for years as you know. We all know what's in the business plan, more cuts, more under investment, more Level 1 HNC Business speak. The reason we're in this boat is because the club lose money because they don't attract investment, sponsorship, because they don't attract quality players, because the fan base is dwindling,,,,,,

This is a tailspin and the longer it lasts the more damage done to the brand in the eyes of fans and sponsors. There is no rainbow, there is only more of the same. It's only a gamble if you think handing over £100 will reap any benefit whatsoever. I don't.

There are potential investors out there who may be minded to stump up with extra cash above what the Fans pledge, the problem is too many Fans are saying they want a say in the Clubs day to day operation, thats never gonna happen as it's unworkable, we would all like to know how we got to this stage but I suspect that what Peter Hood has been telling us Fans since the other year we need an outside investor, is the reason we are where we are, the economy grinding to a halt has not helped one bit. All anyone can do is invest their hard earned cash if the pledge goes ahead and hope it will kickstart another era for the Club, folk can talk all they want its the money that counts in this no if's or but's.

I'm with you M@islebugs. I am keeping my hands in my pockets until there is a real need for it. be that in a month, or a year, but at some point a new club is going to have to be formed.

we are not pledging to save rugby league in Bradford. We are pledging to keep the current company, with its incompetant directors afloat! There is a massive difference.

Unfortunately it all seems to have come to a head over the past 6 years of financial re-structuring, cuts etc. I must say back when Nobby left, Fielden was sold etc I feared where it would all lead and saw paralells with our situation in 1963. It's all happened quicker this time.

Is all the goodwill being used to prop up a lame duck in the current adminstration? I want to believe in them but without more information about their plan I have some major doubts.

I don't want a say in the day to day running of the club but I want some hard evidence that this scheme isn't just postponing the inevitable. Why will this plan work? How is it sustainable?

Wow, it seems like I started the longest thread EVER



Reading through everything I still find myself conflicted. I want to do by part to support the club that I have loved and supported for more than 40 years. But I'm not at all convinced that a short-term cash injection is the best long term solution for the club.

Here's why....

1. We were sold this years season ticket offer on the basis that it would generate sufficient income for the provision of a full cap spend for 2012. It would now appear that this put us in serious financial problems, with the ground lease sell-off and the big overdraft with RBS.

2. When the ground lease was sold we were clearly told that there was no financial concern, and that the money generated would go into the running of the business. I think its obvious now that there was more going on than we were told at the time.

3. We are getting mixed messages about this current pledge. We need £500K by April 6th, but we need a million by the middle of April. So even if we somehow get to the £500K by the deadline of Good Friday, we still need another similar amount within a couple of weeks of that date. Where is that extra £500K coming from? Surely they cannot expect the same fans to pledge another £100?

4. We are told that the current directors have a coherent business plan to move forward, debt free, from April onwards. But we've been given absolutely zero details about the content of that plan - and I think we deserve to have at least the 'broad strokes' if we are to stump up our money. For example does the plan include retaining our excellent youngsters on long term contracts, or are the likes of Elliot Whitehead being put on long term contracts simply to inflate their transfer value at the end of the season? There's a whole lot of questions we need answering about the future plans that simply haven't been addressed yet.

The reality is that I'll probably 'fall soft' and make a pledge later - simply because there might not be another better alternative. In other words, its the lesser of two evils.

But I'm far from happy about it

Incorrect information there i'm afraid, as much as that probably upsets you.

Sums up my thoughts exactly Paul!

Have the Tordoff's got any brass these days? Could they come in and set a new club up or wouldn't they be allowed?

Pains me to say it but all the pledges and fudraising will be tantamount to pouring good money down the drain whilst you are still controlled by the same board. My view would be to pool that money into your supporters trust and buy the club debt-free out of administration, otherwise you will be in the same predicament next year. It may seem hard to take but sometimes you have to take a step back to move several forward. Bradford will survive if you take that route and will in time come back stronger than ever, if you give money to the current lot you'll be gone for good by the end of next year as all the money you can raise will have been and gone and the same people will have made the same mistakes.

Its difficult not to let your heart rule your head but you need a sense of perspective with this one. Short term pain for long term gain or s**t or bust? I know which i'd choose as hard as that may seem. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Over the last two days I've gone through the same feelings of anger, disappointment and frustration that everyone is feeling about the situation we are in. I don't want to go into administration as we would lose our only major assets, the players. I don't want to end up watching a Championship 1 side playing at Horsfal Playing fields as Odsal would not be a feasible venue for such a club. So I'm faced with a choice. Do I pledge and help save the club I have supported for over sixty years and then help to sort out the mess we seem to be in or do I take the negative route and complain, blame and watch the club go under. I have decided to pledge because I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. We do have the makings of a team to be proud of here with young players who want to be here. Just look on Twitter and read what Elliott Whitehead and John Bateman are saying and doing. They're not giving in and neither am I.

some interesting stuff in the paps www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480 www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/hav ... -1-4391031

some interesting stuff in the paps www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480 www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/hav ... -1-4391031

www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/578 ... VAL%20FAQS Apologies if covered already but can someone clarify the section good news for you as it mentions you would be debt free, how could this be as apart from administration and starting afresh I am puzzled if my thoughts are correct then those asked to pledge should be concerned and maybe ask the question of your board.

www.bradfordbulls.co.uk/news/578 ... VAL%20FAQS Apologies if covered already but can someone clarify the section good news for you as it mentions you would be debt free, how could this be as apart from administration and starting afresh I am puzzled if my thoughts are correct then those asked to pledge should be concerned and maybe ask the question of your board.

Not sure if this has been posted, but here's El Presidente's two penneth: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... -1-4390994 Difficult to tell if he's actually offering anything of substance or just indicating his predatory intent regarding poaching players... No doubt you'll be relieved he's not contemplating a take-over

Not sure if this has been posted, but here's El Presidente's two penneth: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... -1-4390994 Difficult to tell if he's actually offering anything of substance or just indicating his predatory intent regarding poaching players... No doubt you'll be relieved he's not contemplating a take-over

Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Not sure if this has been posted, but here's El Presidente's two penneth: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... -1-4390994 Difficult to tell if he's actually offering anything of substance or just indicating his predatory intent regarding poaching players... No doubt you'll be relieved he's not contemplating a take-over '" Well he couldn't but Kath could..............aaaaarrrrrrrgh!

Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Not sure if this has been posted, but here's El Presidente's two penneth: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... -1-4390994 Difficult to tell if he's actually offering anything of substance or just indicating his predatory intent regarding poaching players... No doubt you'll be relieved he's not contemplating a take-over '" Well he couldn't but Kath could..............aaaaarrrrrrrgh!

I don't trust current board, or hood and Bennett at least. Think duckett is being as honest as he can be. BUT my problem all talk of going into admin and reforming etc while in an ideal world I would agree it could be best way forward, back in the real world I can't see club surviving it. If their was a buyer waiting in the wings and a prepack admin used to clear historical debts and retain current players then fair enough. But I've seen and heard nothing to suggest that is the case.
First thing an administrator would do is start selling assets to minimise debts. The only assets we have are the young players we desperately need to retain. So a reformed club faces prospect of potentially limping along for rest of this franchise period, stripped of it's best players with crowds dropping as a side effect then dropping to championship in 2015. We then have to find somewhere to play in championship as odsal/ vp not financially viable at that level and TTY yo devils towards SL in 2018. Weve struggled to get through current five years of rebuilding and are just seeing green shoots. Don't think fanbase is there to ho through it all again.

Don't like it as it supports poor management but don't see an option but tonpledge and support current board. Way I see it extra £100 is just what i would have normally paid got my season ticket under old prices. If it means there's a chance of carrying on at something like current level then I'm prepared to risk that much.

I'm not sure that I want to see a plan as I probably wouldn't put much trust in it anyway. But I think the board do have an responsibility to give more information about the current situation. I'd like to see a statement along the lines of:

"We owe RBS £x, HMRC £x (increasing at £x per month). We owe the RFL £x and other creditors £x. Our monthly expenses are roughly £x. We are currently taking £y net per match at the turnstiles and bars. We are due a minimum of £y from Sky for the rest of the season and £y from other sources (assuming we dont make the play offs or get to Wembley)."

No doubt the Board would argue that this stuff is commercially confidential, but when you've got the begging bowl out you lose the right to that sort of primness.

Fair bit of time on my hands at the moment so have been watching the last couple of days with great interest whilst spending a lot of time on here reading peoples posts from many different clubs.

Firstly Id like to say how disappointed I am to see the state the Bulls are in. It would be a massive blow to Super League to lose one of the big clubs and a huge blow to our game in general. I sympathise 100% with all you Bulls fans because this $hitty situation you find yourselves in has absolutely nothing to do with the fans. Poor management at the very top has led to this situation and is wholly unfair on the people who dig deep year in year out to effectively allow the club to run.

I know there have been a fair few Wakefield fans already come on here who are offering their opinion (some of you seem to be getting annoyed by our intervention ) but at the end of the day our situation is almost identical to yours - our then chairman was asking for us to pledge £1000 not £100 and the takers were minimal. Even if the old management team would of asked for £100 like your being asked for I can say with confidence that again the number of Wakefield fans 'pledging' would have been low. The reason being we might as well walked to a cash machine - withdrawn the money and simply tore it up and thrown it away. All they wanted was a short term fix. Could we have achieved it ? Yes - no doubt between the fans, sponsors etc we would have reached the target but WE as a club didnt want to continue with the same BOD. They have promised things over so many years and failed to deliver, they had told us we were financailly ok- we weren't. When the HMRC came knocking asking for a massive unpaid tax bill it caught us fans out by surprise due to the constant lying from above. So, as supporters we set up a new supporters trust where pledges could actually make a difference once admin had taken effect. Gamble - yes big time. We could easily of lost our franchise and played in the lower leagues but the most important thing to the majority of the fans the club was safe, debt free and would be taken on by the fans or somebody with a bit of financial clout shouldthe opportunity arise. Luckily Andrew Glover has come along and the amount of work and money he has put into our club is fantastic. He has delivered more in the last 6 months than what we have had in the last 10 years.

Bradford could easily have the same. I have no doubt there are some big hitters out there sitting tight waiting to see what happens. Should you go into admin Im guessing there would be a number of quality bids to come on board. But if you all give in now and send them your £100 etc all your doing is saving the guys who have put you there in the first place.

Save your money - let them go - invest in a new supporters trust/club - and rebuild. That way the next trip to Old Trafford or Wembley wont be that far away !

Good luck.