That's where we were last year. In the end, not bailing out the Board was the best thing that ever happened. The energy and drive of the new owner was a major factor in the successful franchise application, and a savvy buyer won't step in until you go into administration. Why take on a million pound debt when you can get the whole thing for peanuts?

Superb post.
This is the third 'pledge' and it is likely that in september Mr Hood will announce another one for next years season tickets. It is a request for trust to be placed in the board. Yet this is a board which have played fast and loose with our trust for years. In public they have stated we were financially secure when in truth they did not have the finanancial support of the shareholding to run the club and have traded upon the sale of assets and the overall reduction of the business. The mailout says sponsorship is at an all time low. That's because the profile of the club is at an all time low.

Furthermore, and this is one which has annoyed me for years. They have cloaked capitulations in 'confidentiality agreements' and 'undisclosed fees' and then dripped information onto this board in a manipulative and deceitful way. Decent posters and lifelong fans have tied themselves in knots explaining THEIR lies on this board and yet not one scintilla of responsibility do they take.

THINK. What are we saving? Another round of cost cutting measures and surrepticious asset sales blamed on someone or something else. The club is effectively unsaleable prior to administration due to the mutual detestation of the shareholders and whether it is now or in september or next March, administration is where this club is heading and whilst their is no realistic expansion club in waiting and the RFL aren't entirely sick to death of us, we need to do it now.

All that will happen is the Bulls will have this whip round. If enough money is not raised. All that will happen is you will go bust and then go into admin.

Then start as a new club with a 4 point deduction.

Have faith in that salesman who runs your club.

Stop worrying.

So what do you propose? We let the club fold becuase we are too stubborn to help? Then what? Reform in division 2, with all the players gone, and with no hope of ever realistically making it out? That's what you are proposing.
I don't disagree with you, but in the SHORT TERM, we have to find this money. The way you want to do it, the club won't be here in Septemeber to issue another pledge, but at least if it survives now, there is tome to organise, to mobilise and to change things. As I said, I had major reservations about pledging, but I had to. In the end, I didn't see a realistic alternative.

After sleeping on yesterdays events, I now feel I need even more answers.

How can the club be allowed to sell our only real "asset" to the RFL without checking with the bank that it wouldn't effect anything else we do? Completely shambolic. A mistake as bad as this would probably result in a sacking / resignation at the very least in the world of "normal" business.

I have the upmost respect for what Messers Hood, Duckett, Duffy, Bennett et al do in terms of trying to run the club in very difficult circumstances, but an error as large as this needs someone to put their hand up and then fall on their sword.

The one worrying comment I have seen from Hood is that we need the £1m to fulfill our fixtures for the rest of the season. Bennett and Duckett have mentioned this "sustainable business plan". Anyone seen it? Thought not. It will probably revolve around the same methods and processes that got us into this mess.

What happens if / when the club raise the £1m? We might fulfill our fixtures until the end of the year - what happenes then? Although the pledge works in terms of getting official "bums on seats" (the reality is a little different) it seems pretty clear that this messes up all cashflow for the rest of the year. The club are reliant on walk up and away fans to generate any significant cash throughout the season. The home games this year haven't seen the same number of travelling away fans of yesteryear. Money is tight for many with the cost of petrol a major factor in people's budgets. Travelling to away games isn't something that most people have time / money to be able to do in the current climate.

A new "pledge" in relation to season tickets needs to be thought up. Although there may be additional revenue in the advertising generated by "guaranteeing" 10k season ticket holders seeing your advert, I'm not sure that this is necessarily the best way to go about things cash flow wise. We are getting cash up front at the beginning of the year and then appear to be blowing it all in the first 2 months of the season. We might be better selling 3,500 memberships at £200 rather than 10,000 at £70 for example. Even when we were at our lowest points under McNamara we were averaging 8k? Surely that makes more money than the current method? Are we actually selling much more beer in the ground for 10k people? Never seems to be a queue of any sort when I go for a beer. Also, we know pretty well for certain that alot of people are picking and choosing their games for the season membership. Games against the bigger teams such as Wigan, Leeds, etc will pull people in. The games against London for example when it's throwing it down and on tv will not.....

Where has all RFL cash gone? Did that not pay off short term debt? Where did the Lynchy money go?

OK, the bank may have pulled the plug on the overdraft, but I don't recall the last accounts showing anything resembling a £1m overdraft needing to be paid off. I know things change and the accounts are a snapshot at a certain point in time and things can spiral downwards very quickly. However, all the noises coming from the club were that we had no issues financially after the sale of the lease.

I've not received a letter through the post yet, I imagine it may come today, but just the fact that the club have had time to do a mailshot, set up the website, line up the T&A etc means they have known about this for days, possibly weeks. To me, and many others this smells of another marketing campaign to a degree.

My main concern is that we (the fans) will end up throwing all this money into the club to see it survive short term. In another 12 months we could be in the same position and this process will not be possible as you can only go to the well so many times before it runs dry.

How has a figure of £1m come about? What does this £1m actually pay / guarantee? Do we need to have a bond with the bank? Do we need to pay suppliers? Do we need to pay wages? Do we need to pay a tax bill to HMRC? £1m seems to be a very round number - personally I imagine the required amount of cash would be less than £1m, but it makes for a better marketing campaign and "shock value" than saying we need £800k - still a significant amount of money, granted, but not the same level of delivery when doing the interviews.....I imagine we will fall short of the £1m target, but somehow "survive" and then carry on as before with the same apparant level of incompetence.

What I would like to see would be some sort of fans involvement on the board. Everyone who contributes to the fund has a vote to appoint a member to the board. This person can be involved in some level of decision making, or at the very least, be aware of situations within the club that it can then relay to the members allowing us to have greater transaparancy with the dealings within the club.

Won't happen, but one can dream.

Why would you never make it out?
With the fan base you would have. Money would be no problem.

You would have good times.

It won't fold. It will enter administration. An administrator will sell the club to someone who can run it properly. Who? I hear you shout. Nobody will come out of the woodwork until we're in administration because until then the club is not for sale. Only administration will clear the board and the shareholding out of the club. The alternative is further years of decline and then administration. We are between a rock and a very hard place. The truth is that there aren't alternatives to administration, there are only long painful delays.

Yep, just that, the club is the fans and the community. When times are toughest you find out who the strong willed peope are. Hood is a liar. Simple as. How dare he line RAz Duckett up and put him on TV and radio to beg on his behalf. the board have uncategorically lied and been incompetant. Until I saw the statement from RBS, I was wavering, thinkning we'd been unlucky. BUt no, we continue to rob Peter to pay PAul.

we need to emerge out of this with 1, a club and 2, dignity.

Pledge after pledge is coming form Hood and co, each time taking the mick. even the numbers of employees etc... was misleading.

Start up again, even if it is in champ 1 and run it properly. It may take some time to restore the club to its former glories, but one things for sure, I'd rather have dignity and pride in champ 1, than be a laughing stock in SL!

Well said that man.

Well perhaps people should look at the RFL decision in the light it was taken, seeing as Steve Parkins name has now cropped up as a potential investor, a name no one was happy with before the RFL took over lease of Odsal. Calling Peter Hood a liar is emotive and without any actual proof. The Club may belongs to the Fans but the business doesn't, remember Peter Hood has always said its a Franchise Name and could be sold accordingly, this he could do but as he still is a Bulls fan wouldn't, hence plan A (ironic as we always complained there was never a plan B)

The more I read of this thread, the more I first admire the passion of so many people who are prepared to stump up the cash to save the club, but the more I then feel genuine anger that it seems to me that the chancer in charge of the clubs is using that passion to fleece you all. I hope I'm wrong.

I still think you could go into administration and still get a franchise next time if the new club was trading well. I think Hood and Co are trying to get the fans to save their business interests, not the club.

Hopefully I'm wrong. One way or another I hope (and think) the Bulls will survive. I just think this pledge idea stinks to high heaven.

are you sure slugger , this is taken from another forum

Re: Interesting stuff from RW
by Gloria » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:19 am

Some serious rumours coming out that Wakefield players are a month behind with wages!

But what if it doesn't work?

What if the club raises £500k from the fans, but cant find the extra £500k that the Board says is needed, stumbles on and then goes bust at the end of the season?

The £500k would effectively have gone to RBS, HMRC, npower (or whoever) and the other credtors. I wouldnt begrudge the tiny portion of my £100 that went to pay the wage arrears but apart from that I'd be fairly peeved.

And if it doesnt work, what are the chances that the fans will dip into their pockets again to find another £500k to launch a new club? Might it not be better if we held on to our £100 now and use it later to start afresh? I'd happily pay a lot more than £100 in those circumstances.

I expect that if the fans do find the £500k it will be much easier for the Board to sell the club as a going concern. But until we know who would want to buy it, and more importantly why, that might be a case of jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

500K now to form a supporrters trust with clout, rather than plug holes in a sinking ship, would give a great foundation of a reformed club. how many of us could give again in 3,6,12 months????

I'm in the same place too.

Listening to the fans from Wakey I do wonder if admin might be the way to go. We need a fresh start and maybe admin is the only way to get it?

Back in the mid 80s the T&A ran a series called "The Shame of Odsal" and then chairman Jack Bates said the club were 48hrs from closure. The club was run like a private members club. There were appeals to the fans to come to games to increase attendances but the feeling was that they wanted our money but they didn't want us. There are a lot of paralells with the situation now.

Now we have club officials talking about "the people's team" and appealing for money based on the promise of a "business plan going forward" whatever that means.

For the past 6 years we've been treated like mushrooms by the board (kept in the dark) Despite many assurances and carefully worded replies to questions at fans fora it appears the club have never really been honest about how strapped for cash we actually are. One minute we're told Odsal is a drain on resources, the next it's never been a problem. Now we're up the creek I think the club need to be honest. Let's see the business plan published and see if it stacks up.

Personally I'd be more likely to stump up (and with more cash) if it were for shares. As it is I'm really torn. I want what's best for the club long term, after 32 years of going to Odsal I don't know what I'd do without it. But I simply don't have confidence in the current board. Going into Admin seems to be a gamble and I'm no gambler....

As you can see I'm no further forward!

What a load of CRAP

If the current Bulls organisation manage to raise the funds to pay April's bills, where does that leave us in May, June etc.. and going forward?

BY November / December we will be in the same mess that led us to go cap in hand to the RFL in the first place.

STop the rot now! Let the company as it is now, fold. They tell us theres no debt other than the overdraft (Not sure I believe them!) so will I lose sleep over RBS being a few hundred grand down? NO!

The RFL wont bail this lot out, but I'd bet that they would support, in expertise and financially, a new company that has no involvemnet from the current lot. I am sure in the past theyve even placed directors on boards where clubs have been struggling!

They have, quite directly, by accepting Odsal's lease to cover a loan, secured Rugby League in Bradford. If we folded and the lease was held by the club, the council would sell it off to raise funds, as they are strapped too!

RBS simply saw the club as a bad risk. In todays climate, a company need to be honest with their bankers. we were not.

Hood and the board are to blame. They have been dishonest. An overdraft is a debt. selling Odsal's lease did not make us debt free. we were operating on cash that was not ours! if we were debt free, we would not have an overdraft!

I hope those of you pledging understand that the 500K that may be raised only secures the club in the very short term. Even hood has said they would need between 3-500K more to get to the end of the year. Then what?

We need to listen to the fans whose clubs have been through similar experiences. The wakefield fan (Plastic armadillo??? has been there and we can learn from their experiences. We need to remove the emotion ( to quote MAtthew Elliot) and look at things logically.

A club is based on trust, and I for one, have none in Peter Hood. He has failed at every level and accepts no responsability. He would rather blame everyone else rather than be honest. sometimes in life you have to hold up your hands and say I tried, but I failed. Hood seems incapable of doing this!

This, sums it all up for me

I want the opportunity to pledge to the club. However, I firmly believe the main impediment to the club moving forward is the combination of board and shareholding. I've argued this for years as you know. We all know what's in the business plan, more cuts, more under investment, more Level 1 HNC Business speak. The reason we're in this boat is because the club lose money because they don't attract investment, sponsorship, because they don't attract quality players, because the fan base is dwindling,,,,,,

This is a tailspin and the longer it lasts the more damage done to the brand in the eyes of fans and sponsors. There is no rainbow, there is only more of the same. It's only a gamble if you think handing over £100 will reap any benefit whatsoever. I don't.

There are potential investors out there who may be minded to stump up with extra cash above what the Fans pledge, the problem is too many Fans are saying they want a say in the Clubs day to day operation, thats never gonna happen as it's unworkable, we would all like to know how we got to this stage but I suspect that what Peter Hood has been telling us Fans since the other year we need an outside investor, is the reason we are where we are, the economy grinding to a halt has not helped one bit. All anyone can do is invest their hard earned cash if the pledge goes ahead and hope it will kickstart another era for the Club, folk can talk all they want its the money that counts in this no if's or but's.

I'm with you M@islebugs. I am keeping my hands in my pockets until there is a real need for it. be that in a month, or a year, but at some point a new club is going to have to be formed.

we are not pledging to save rugby league in Bradford. We are pledging to keep the current company, with its incompetant directors afloat! There is a massive difference.

Unfortunately it all seems to have come to a head over the past 6 years of financial re-structuring, cuts etc. I must say back when Nobby left, Fielden was sold etc I feared where it would all lead and saw paralells with our situation in 1963. It's all happened quicker this time.

Is all the goodwill being used to prop up a lame duck in the current adminstration? I want to believe in them but without more information about their plan I have some major doubts.

I don't want a say in the day to day running of the club but I want some hard evidence that this scheme isn't just postponing the inevitable. Why will this plan work? How is it sustainable?

Wow, it seems like I started the longest thread EVER



Reading through everything I still find myself conflicted. I want to do by part to support the club that I have loved and supported for more than 40 years. But I'm not at all convinced that a short-term cash injection is the best long term solution for the club.

Here's why....

1. We were sold this years season ticket offer on the basis that it would generate sufficient income for the provision of a full cap spend for 2012. It would now appear that this put us in serious financial problems, with the ground lease sell-off and the big overdraft with RBS.

2. When the ground lease was sold we were clearly told that there was no financial concern, and that the money generated would go into the running of the business. I think its obvious now that there was more going on than we were told at the time.

3. We are getting mixed messages about this current pledge. We need £500K by April 6th, but we need a million by the middle of April. So even if we somehow get to the £500K by the deadline of Good Friday, we still need another similar amount within a couple of weeks of that date. Where is that extra £500K coming from? Surely they cannot expect the same fans to pledge another £100?

4. We are told that the current directors have a coherent business plan to move forward, debt free, from April onwards. But we've been given absolutely zero details about the content of that plan - and I think we deserve to have at least the 'broad strokes' if we are to stump up our money. For example does the plan include retaining our excellent youngsters on long term contracts, or are the likes of Elliot Whitehead being put on long term contracts simply to inflate their transfer value at the end of the season? There's a whole lot of questions we need answering about the future plans that simply haven't been addressed yet.

The reality is that I'll probably 'fall soft' and make a pledge later - simply because there might not be another better alternative. In other words, its the lesser of two evils.

But I'm far from happy about it

Incorrect information there i'm afraid, as much as that probably upsets you.

Sums up my thoughts exactly Paul!