Jesus wept.....it makes no difference if he put 1 million, 10 million or 50 million into the club...the fact remains that money was needed to pay the wages from July and no other revenue streams have been announced since, but wages still need to be paid.

I get it...everything at Bradford is fine.

On the contrary, it is always wise to try & use accurate figures. I didn't make any suggestion that there was not a real underlying problem that led to late wages & tax bill payments.

The club has claimed the Bartercard naming deal will generate a six figure annual sum. Very hard to believe when it has just 55,000 cardholders worldwide.

The Bulls are in big trouble. Interest & credibility is declining rapidly. The owners don't seem to be cutting their pattern according to the cloth they have. The club has big debts to service & and an owner who is too egotistical to allow anyone else part ownership.

Must be awful for you being so bitter!

Been looking at this thread for a couple of days.

At first I thought that Gutterfax was just trolling, but after reading some of his arguments, I'm starting to feel that his reasoning includes some thought.

The timing of the new 'pledge' and the deadline the club has created for itself makes me a little nervous. The money that the 1000 fans raise over the next week will be around £280k, this being pretty close to the monthly wage bill.

I would like to think that every move the club makes is an exciting new venture allowing fans to engage with their club, but I'm getting a repetitive impression that each move the club makes is done with the intention of surviving for 1 more month.

I'm concerned that these 'oversights' by the accounts department and Ryan are becoming a little regular, and the fact that the club refused to make a statement regarding last months wages makes me think there was a little more to that story.

Wasn't there Sunday (looks like I tore my ACL on Sat), but can anyone confirm if the new pledge allows the fans to still use the 3 month payment option (and still be included into the 1000). If not, then I will be concerned as this would indicate the club is not interested in the amount of fans on the terraces next year, but the amount of cash that 1000 fans can contribute over a 7 day period.

I'm all for supporting the cause and that, but after last year (when fans we're lied to and told to throw their money into a magical pot) I find myself looking a little deeper into some decisions/announcements. Surely I'm not the only one a little concerned??

Given the negativity running through most of my posts in recent years, an easy and excusable mistake to make.

You would hope not. I admire the way that FA and Roo2 defend their club....god knows I've eaten enough bridge dwellers on the London board over the years, but there is a series of events at Bradford that do point in a worrying direction.

nope, probably far from it, and as much as we dont like to read it, there are some uncomfortable elements in the posts from gutterfax when you compare it to last year and whats going on in RL at other clubs like wakey and london.

But, as there is little I can do other than what I do every season, I will be doing it again - buy the season ticket, buy some merchandise around xmas and the start of the new season, turn up to as many games as I can afford to home and away (dont live anywhere near Bradford), and hope for the best, or at least some entertainment on the pitch.


It is worrying, but the people running the club now are not the ones who lied to us last year. Therefore at the moment Im prepared to belive most of what Im told, and give Mr Khan all the respect he deserves for putting his money in (where would we be without him?) and hope for the best, but with a touch of waryness, and put most of the issues down to new people climbing out of a hole that is deeper than they expected....but nothing will surprise me.

1. Where has the £200k wages figure come from? We clearly are well below the cap, and the admin costs are massively less than the previous regime, so please detail the 12x£200k = £2400k annual wage bill.
2. detail the £840k investment for me please, I seem to have missed this bit of news. The detail I want is who the £840k was paid to. So, for example, paying £225k to the RECEIVERS is not a cash injection into the CLUB.
4. Loans. when were they taken out by OK Bulls, how much, what were the repayment terms, and if OKB are in default, how long for and totals unpaid? and what have the bank done about it?
4. note that I am not being defensive, merely asking you to evidence your comments with reference to external sources .
5. Yes, you are dazzlingly observant about the gap between one season and another, I really could not have thought of that one. (cue much self -flagellation and -abuse for being so STUPID as to not have realised this fact) However, to anybody experienced in the financial management of a business, the signs were there several months, ago as was the knowledge that OKB was doing something about it.

So if you are so clever, why didnt you make your stupid futile comments three months ago, instead of reacting like a pbrain to the news of a dismissal of a winding up petition? Do you know that (thanks mainly to football clubs protecting the grossly overpaid footballers from all other creditors including HMRC) that sports clubs are jumped on by HMRC, hence the RFL (not superleague) interest in ensuring all clubs meet their commitments?

7. not your comment, gutterf*ck, someone else's, but I might as well deal with two onanissts at the same time. "Omar Khan is trying to make himself out to be some sort of hero". I have seen Ryan make the statement that OK is putting money in, not OK himself. I have seen Suttcliffe say that OK is not a sugar daddy, he has limited resources. Please show me where OK himself says that he is a hero. for the record, I do think he is a hero that needs the support of 10000 season ticket holders. and also for the record, I am not OK, I cannot cook a curry to save my life.

davyz999 yes as a Bulls fan i was concerned 3 months ago unlike the gutterpress, but look at what you are saying yourself, that the annual wages bill is £3360K. it just about hit that figure in the precap days when we had full stadiums and won the prizemoney for worldclub championships etc etc etc. Yes, be concerned, but dont get dragged down to the level of the gutter.

Where is Adeybull while all this is going on?

Bitter? About what?

In May of this year the club made 2014 season tickets available on an advance payment plan. Right when they knew the money wasn't their to pay tax bills & wages.

Was it Khan who put money in to cover these, or was it more borrowing?

Dangling from a rope somewhere? I'd imagine even he is finding it hard to put up with what's going on.

PS: and as for those plunkers that think a budget is reality, you try running a business, let alone a sports club business. The only thing that ensures a budget is reality is a SUGAR DADDY. eg Huddersfield..:

J.c: nearly said that myself. But wherever Sir Adey is, lets hope he rests in mental peace free from bullters.

Lets see what hard facts these stargazers have used for their astonishing predictions centuries before the events. Indeed, competition time, what is the collective noun for trolls that forecast events after they have happened?

The £200k monthly wage bill seems realistic, and I think I saw this figure in the T&A when the first monthly wage payment was missed. At the time I remember people making the same argument re the salary cap, and I seem to remember a RAB poster (maybe Mat or Maislebugs) stating that this figure was for all the staff, not just playing roster. And that this monthly figure had reduced from about £350k per month, from the year before.

If you don't count things like the Bartercard deal or the sponsorship of the popular terrace.

Not saying things are rosy at Bradford, in fact I haven't said that at all during this whole thing, however YOU consistently ignore facts and figures that deviate away from your predictions of doom as well as make up figures and quotes then claim them as facts.

The £200k a month wages figure has often been used in Bradford T&A pieces on the Bulls.

Why even mention he's putting money into a business he solely owns? You need to ask those who deal with him about his ego.

Khan has funded Sutcliffe's political career for years. Of course he's going to big his pal up. Whitcut has worked with Khan for years, of course he's going to big his pal up.

Tax bills don't get filed & forgotten about. They get ignored until court action is imminent. You forget that the previous incarnation of the Bulls went under owing HMRC £500k. How is football to blame for this?

You need to wise up about what is going on behind the scenes at your club

I tell you what then Ryan, assuming of course you are reading this, when the club stops making itself a target for these comments then you may well get your wish. The honeymoon period is long over for the new regime and it is time to start putting things right off the pitch.

You were all happy to take the plaudits when OK and GS rode in on their horse like the saviours of the world. How then can you not take the "stick" when it is deserved? A bit two-faced is it not?

This season has been a PR disaster of epic proportions, culminating in yet another season without play off rugby, a half d attitude on the pitch and a desperate attempt to get season ticket sales when the goods on display are undeserving of coughing up for.

We have had the "one hour shop sale" disaster at the start of the season, the pathetic treatment of a club employee who was sacked by locksmith, the "missed payment oversight". Not to forget Jay Willey-gate. I have spent longer in a barbers shop than she spent at the club and I have been bald for years.

Oh, and social media? A bit like our owners' use of twitter to have a pop at an ex-player? (The same owner who allegedly terminated the employment of a club employee for mis-use of social media?)

What next?

The fans are commenting on issues that are arising from within the club. We are not making thing up, merely commenting on what has become knowledge in the public domain.

Take a look around. People are voting with their feet. There is only so much that people can take. Luckily for the club, we seem to have an extraordinary amount of gullible followers who will be spoon-fed by the "PR" and sign up for another season. These fans deserve better than what they get.

So if you are so precious that you cannot take the negative comments from people on social media then perhaps it is time to start getting up back to a place that we can all be proud of. A well run club that is not seemingly shooting itself in the foot at all times.

Also. Perhaps worth remembering that plenty of these people who you seem to wish to censor are people who are putting their money into the club. Essentially they are helping pay your wages. Hopefully you will get them on time.

All the financial facts and figures in the world make little difference to the reality that after 10 home games this season, there was not enough money in the bank to pay the salaries of the staff. You can argue that the wages aren't 200k or any other pedantic points, the facts are that 11 months into the brave new dawn, the club was skint and reliant on the benevolence of Mr K. He is to be applauded BTW for actually stumping up some cash and this points to him being in it for the longer run.
As for those that say Mr K and his guys need time to learn how to run a sports club......

I'd suggest that's the last thing they need to do. Looking at other clubs in similar positions (mine included BTW), they need to be run like a business first and foremost....and that means not projecting wildly inflated ST sales to start with!

BTW...Did they miss wages payments and tax bill payments because they were too busy reading "RL Clubs for Dummies"?

What is the Bartercard deal? How on earth is it going to bring in £100k+ a year when there are only 55,000 cardholders worldwide?

Season tickets for 2014 being offered on payment plans in May? Juts when money was in short supply to pay tax bills & wages?

this is getting a bit repetitive but here we go:

How many and how much for these 2014 season tickets? how much was the tax bill and how much were the wages?

Seeing as you know so much about OKs personal finances, why dont you tell us instead of all this teasieweasie? and per the previous post, what loan for how much over what period with what covenants?

facts please boffaboy. When you have got them correct, you will then have the same facts that I used at the time to deduce the issues you are retrotractively commenting on four months later. Just try to get ahead of the game, not four months behind it.

davyz etc yes if £200k is what you are saying now after initially stating £280K, that is more realistic. Having written press releases myself and paid Pr companies to do an even better job, I am totally cynical about anything in the press (let alone bloggs) not substantiated by independent facts - as you may have guessed. so the £200k may actually be inflated with other things sort of wage related, just to show what a big amount can be paid off in one go. Which, all wages or not, is a big amount.

My workings out were 1000 x £280.00 = £280,000

Take away the tax that needed to be paid on this figure (hoping the club now understand the need to pay a tax bill on time) and it will leave you with close to the £200,000 figure for salaries.

Not an exact science, but that was my thinking.

btw, It's a sad day when I'm having an adult debate/discussion with the trolls and getting attitude from the 'Bulls Family'. I get that people are passionate, but some of the 'attitude' on this thread makes poor reading.

Concerns were raised at fans forums around the time the payment plan was introduced, and the club gave fans assurances that any monies received for 2014 STs would be ring-fenced and not spent during the 2013 season.
Now you can choose to believe them, or you can say they were lying to us all. I somehow get the feeling that you will be choosing the latter option.

If you believe everything you read in the press, more fool you. Sorry, yes you are.

You said he had been bulling himself up, I asked you to show me where he himself said anything, you have come up with nothing.

Sutcliffe simply stated he was not a sugar daddy. That is not bulling him up, friend or not. it is clearly a statement of fact. It warns people that he does not have limitless funds of money and so things could get tricky in the future. and yet somehow you have turned that into Gerry worshipping Ok for putting billions into the club.

No, as I have to do that myself it is not usual to forget about tax bills. But I also refer to the fact that the court case was a dismissal of a case meaning settlement of the debt. I was not blaming football for the bulls going under owing £500k. What football, through raising a footballer who may already have several million pounds in the bank to the level of preferential creditor over and above HMRC and other creditors who may not have been paid for debts of a lot longer standing than the fall-over boys, have made sure that HMRC jump are oversensitive to sports clubs generally.

As previously stated, I was wise months ago, before all this, yes as OK has stated through Gerry, he is not going to solely fund the problems, so of course I am concerned. But nonetheless I prefer facts to nonsense.

and on that note, nothing from the gutter press yet.

Already understood in that previous post that the £280k was a bit of a red herring by my agreement with £200k as a starting point, and hopefully I have managed a bit of a different tone with a family member ie purely factual rather than with scurrilous embellishments on user names. The only attitude i have is for facts (admitedly whoever is posting) but more importantly, against otherworldly trolls that think they are telling us news. reminds me of the definition of a consultant: someone who tells you the time, using your own watch. Yes, the bulls have problems, we all know. if they could come up with answers, then welcome trolls!!!

Really??? Think there is someone else who needs a reality check on here.

I've read many a post from you this year and it seems to me that you are one of a few who really have a problem with the owners and appear determined to stick the knife in at any given opportunity.

I'm not entirely sure why... I have my own suspicions why but i'll leave them off this forum.

The fact is that the new administration told us that it would take 3yrs to get this club back on the right road. They told us this at the first fans forum. They also warned us that the playing staff would take time to turn around. You dont just get to overhaul a crap team in 3months so why you expected anything better than last year i'll never know. I guess this doesn't matter as you, after all it wouldn't give you anything to complain about, would it?

The deal with the one hour sale was misguided but similar ploys happen in business all the time (I've booked tickets for shows only to see them slashed days later... just one of those things).

The sacking of the shop manager.... we don't know the full facts, Jay Willey.... we don't know the full facts, you get the message (or maybe you don't???)... YOU DON'T KNOW THE FACTS!!!

Why is this "stick" deserved when you actually know very little about the true facts. You seem to know very little about the real world at all in fact.

Ryan Whitcut has complained at the false speculation and bad press (yes something you've been very good at this last year) and has moved to put an end to this. He also says that his door is always open, something I've found out myself when I've been concerned by a few things. Its amazing what can happen when you ask. I wonder if you have given him or others an opportunity to put their own side forward before spouting what can only be described as unfounded and nauseating bile.

I've said it before and i'll say it again... You're either a fan (and if you would like me to given you a definition, please don't hesitate to ask for one

) or you're not... which one are you???