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This is the zone thats between a rock and a hard place. It still going to be a painful transistion whichever way it works out! But at least there is now a way!
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The assumption that Bradford will be relegated is very odd. SL clubs have faced the reality that:
1) Nobody is going to bail out the Bulls during this season.
2) They need the Bulls to fulfill fixtures this year, which SL clubs would effectively have to subsidise anyway.
3) They need the Bulls in the competition longer-term.
Comparisons with Wakey and Widnes (who weren't even in SL when they went bust) are spurious at best. SL management at least recognise that the loss of the Bulls would be far, far worse for the competition 9and their own finances) than losing the likes of Wakefield. That's not to disrespect Wakey or to suggest its fair. But it is reality. SL IS a 2-tier competition - the loss of any one of the real big clubs (Wigan, Leeds, Sts etc) would impact far more than losing one of the smaller clubs. As would losing London and now Cats for other reasons.
I'd say the most likely scenario is that SL take ownership and see out this year, then seek an opportunity to sell the club once things have stabilised. That may even have to wait until the next round of franchises are awarded.
Still, whilst I personally applaud the move and think that the Bulls can actually start to look forwards now, I fully expect your site to get flamed from now until the club is sold on by SL.
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| Quote ="martinwildbull"Pot calling kettle black, FA. why didnt you do the text in white, it is far more appropriate for a blue background than blue text which has disappeared into the great blue yonder. otherwise, love it. In fact I am so inspired by it I am going to put my new avatar on, foul language included, so you can see how to do text.'"
When i found out what was going to happen, I put it up wondering whether anyone would notice. Nobody did, but there it was  |
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"The assumption that Bradford will be relegated is very odd. SL clubs have faced the reality that:
1) Nobody is going to bail out the Bulls during this season.
2) They need the Bulls to fulfill fixtures this year, which SL clubs would effectively have to subsidise anyway.
I'd say the most likely scenario is that SL take ownership and see out this year, then seek an opportunity to sell the club once things have stabilised. That may even have to wait until the next round of franchises are awarded.
Still, whilst I personally applaud the move and think that the Bulls can actually start to look forwards now, I fully expect your site to get flamed from now until the club is sold on by SL.'"
So how long do the RFL wait before announcing where the Bulls play next season? , dont forget you have nearly 30 other clubs affected by this
How long do SLE subsidise the Bulls to the tune of 100 K per month in SL? , not forgetting the money already spent |
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Looking at yesterday's developements in the light of a new day it seems that if the SLE buyout is approved then:
1) Immediate question of will we finish the season answered - yes
2) Urgency to find a new owner other than SLE even more acute and what is the mechanism now BG is out of the way?
3) Some posters seem to suggest if it's not SL then there wont be support for a team or sufficient backing in one of the other leagues?
4) No-one would like to clear the "old debts" - whatever they are £750k, £1m or £1.5m - which as a business proposition is understandable - but if you rephrased the question to would you pay £750k, £1m or £1.5m to stay in SL you might get a different response.
5) The big "condition" - what league would we be in question for any prospective buyer still remains and is clearly linked to point 4)
6) I guess whatever league the team would be in then the RFL would be happy to get some rental income from renting the ground, but again the value of that rent is a function of the league we are in.
It seems that there is some backing for a new "consortium" of business interests and fans, but again who would co-ordinate and is there a mechanism for the fans to "buy" a stake - for example contibute to BB which could then buy a stake in newco? I would put money in if that was an option.
But the key issue I see is that if a credible bid to take out SLE is not put together in the next few months then the team, back office and coaching staff will just be allowed to gradually melt away and there will be no structure to support a team in any of the leagues.
So less immediate jeopardy but even more questions?
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Must admit I cannot get my head around what will happen to the historic debt. I just cannot see how a governing body could default on tax debts and I would be very surprised if the other SL clubs would be prepared to effectively take on the liabilities.
Looks like the Championship at best next season. I expect the RFL wil tweak the rules so that there is a reasonably clear pathway back to SL. I dont think they would be doing this just to to make sure we scrape through to the end of the season. They'll want to see the Bulls serve their punishment, but will also want to make sure there is some light at the end of the tunnel. But the task of setting up a new organisation ready to play in the Championship will be immense.
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Personally, I would like to see a fans voice on the new BOD (if that ever happens).
Over to you Bullbuilder, Unfortunately i don't have the time to aid it, but financially i would help.
Heres hoping this light at the end of the tunnel isn't followed by a train.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"When i found out what was going to happen, I put it up wondering whether anyone would notice. Nobody did, but there it was
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and when you hear that Caisley has bought the club from SLE for 2/6 pence will you put up the mona lisa with a Caisley moustache on it? |
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Have they announced the 4 new clubs entering Champ1 in 2013 or have they only announced 3.
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| Quote ="martinwildbull"and when you hear that Caisley has bought the club from SLE for 2/6 pence will you put up the mona lisa with a Caisley moustache on it?'"
Hasn't he already bought it? I thought it was common knowledge that the bid from SLE is just a smokescreen for CaiSLEy |
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SLE will want to sell the club, and the only way to do that is for the buyer to know that they will remain in SL next year.
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| Quote ="slideby"SLE will want to sell the club, and the only way to do that is for the buyer to know that they will remain in SL next year.'"
You may not have heard, but the RFL will not give any buyer any such assurance. I believe it may have been mentioned before. |
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I've not had cause to think about this before, but does anyone know if there is a facility on this board to put morons on 'ignore'? To be honest I think I've had more than enough of some.
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| Quote ="Bulliac"I've not had cause to think about this before, but does anyone know if there is a facility on this board to put morons on 'ignore'? To be honest I think I've had more than enough of some.'"
Profile button at the bottom of their post, then "Add foe". |
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| Quote ="Bulliac"I've not had cause to think about this before, but does anyone know if there is a facility on this board to put morons on 'ignore'? To be honest I think I've had more than enough of some.'"
I'm keen to know this, too.
Generally, I find RL Fans to be a terrible place, full of childish, gloating twunts. I have always found our board to be above that (mostly) and a decent place to be.
Unfortunately, a lot of the aforementioned tunts have surfaced to either gloat, or tell us how much better their side handle a completely different situation and to be honest, it's beginning to grate.
I love to know what decent fans of other clubs think, but at the moment is being lost in a jizztastic orgy of gloating. The sooner I can get rid of them and listen to what Bulls fans have to say, the better. |
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| Quote ="vbfg"Profile button at the bottom of their post, then "Add foe".'"
I should have just waited a minute.  |
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| Quote ="vbfg"Profile button at the bottom of their post, then "Add foe".'"
I thank you for keeping my sanity - or at least what's left of it  |
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| And now that you both quoted me anyone who's sick of the sight of me and added me to their foe list has to see my words.  |
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| Quote ="vbfg"Profile button at the bottom of their post, then "Add foe".'"
Thank you
It's a pity there isn't some way of mass adding gloating idiots who 'support' other clubs - but doing it one moron at a time will have to suffice |
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| Quote ="vbfg"And now that you both quoted me anyone who's sick of the sight of me and added me to their foe list has to see my words.
'" d@mn! added myself to my foe list! (not too much applause please chaps and chapettes).
Good things: well done TnA for the "Bulls fans thank the RL family" article. |
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Ever run your own business?
If you have and in these desperate economic times you will understand that precedents and principles will only lead to the destruction of your business.
The RFL is run by people living in the past where such qualities whilst admirable only end up being the losing call.
Had it been me I would have entertained the best bid regardless of any conditions.
Bull is what was required here from the RFL and they couldnt grasp that. The Bradford Bulls situation is the thin end of the wedge. Why dont they get it?
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Quote ="andycapp"Ever run your own business?
If you have and in these desperate economic times you will understand that precedents and principles will only lead to the destruction of your business.
The RFL is run by people living in the past where such qualities whilst admirable only end up being the losing call.
Had it been me I would have entertained the best bid regardless of any conditions.
Bull is what was required here from the RFL and they couldnt grasp that. The Bradford Bulls situation is the thin end of the wedge. Why dont they get it?'"
Blake Solly's ethical stand is all well and good but it essentially means one BoD can destroy a club forever. The RFL are insisting on something that isn't insisted on in any other business or in law. The only case that can be made is if the financial probity aspect of the licensing system is so efficient it flags up any issues and club are faced with and emplys serious sanctions prior to ending up in this state such as signing embargo, the resignation of directors and RFL intervention in the clubs finances. In this case the RFL lent them money when we can assume the bank said 'mo more'.
Solly's 'moral' position is all the more surprising when considering the lease which was to become a key stumbling block. When the RFL bought it they told us it was to safeguard the future of the stadium. This raised eyebrows at the time as it is owned by the council who have recently said there is some kind of Sport England condition that means only rugby league can be played there unitl 2019.
Solly's position is here
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... League___/
On the whole I'm not against imposing standards of financial probity which are higher than the law. However, I don't see how you can insist on such if
a) your own process of financial governance has failed
b) you have ignored further instances which should have alerted the RFL to the financial situation at Bradford.
c) you have lent the club money and failed to act in any way when they failed to make payment
d) you have bought the lease on their ground and in explanation told a story which was untrue.
e) you conducted c and d in complete secrecy thereby not only not enacting a process of scrutiny but allowing the club and its directors to escape any reasonable scrutiny from the supporters or shareholders
f) you have taken no sanction on the club's former directors
g) you are aware that the clubs supporters have raised 500k in order to pay debts that you were aware of and took no action to curb many months previously |
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Quote ="andycapp"Ever run your own business?
If you have and in these desperate economic times you will understand that precedents and principles will only lead to the destruction of your business.
The RFL is run by people living in the past where such qualities whilst admirable only end up being the losing call.
Had it been me I would have entertained the best bid regardless of any conditions.
Bull is what was required here from the RFL and they couldnt grasp that. The Bradford Bulls situation is the thin end of the wedge. Why dont they get it?'"
Blake Solly's ethical stand is all well and good but it essentially means one BoD can destroy a club forever. The RFL are insisting on something that isn't insisted on in any other business or in law. The only case that can be made is if the financial probity aspect of the licensing system is so efficient it flags up any issues and club are faced with and emplys serious sanctions prior to ending up in this state such as signing embargo, the resignation of directors and RFL intervention in the clubs finances. In this case the RFL lent them money when we can assume the bank said 'mo more'.
Solly's 'moral' position is all the more surprising when considering the lease which was to become a key stumbling block. When the RFL bought it they told us it was to safeguard the future of the stadium. This raised eyebrows at the time as it is owned by the council who have recently said there is some kind of Sport England condition that means only rugby league can be played there unitl 2019.
Solly's position is here
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/s ... League___/
On the whole I'm not against imposing standards of financial probity which are higher than the law. However, I don't see how you can insist on such if
a) your own process of financial governance has failed
b) you have ignored further instances which should have alerted the RFL to the financial situation at Bradford.
c) you have lent the club money and failed to act in any way when they failed to make payment
d) you have bought the lease on their ground and in explanation told a story which was untrue.
e) you conducted c and d in complete secrecy thereby not only not enacting a process of scrutiny but allowing the club and its directors to escape any reasonable scrutiny from the supporters or shareholders
f) you have taken no sanction on the club's former directors
g) you are aware that the clubs supporters have raised 500k in order to pay debts that you were aware of and took no action to curb many months previously | |
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| Quote ="M@islebugs"On the whole I'm not against imposing standards of financial probity which are higher than the law. However, I don't see how you can insist on such if
a) your own process of financial governance has failed
b) you have ignored further instances which should have alerted the RFL to the financial situation at Bradford.
c) you have lent the club money and failed to act in any way when they failed to make payment
d) you have bought the lease on their ground and in explanation told a story which was untrue.
e) you conducted c and d in complete secrecy thereby not only not enacting a process of scrutiny but allowing the club and its directors to escape any reasonable scrutiny from the supporters or shareholders
f) you have taken no sanction on the club's former directors
g) you are aware that the clubs supporters have raised 500k in order to pay debts that you were aware of and took no action to curb many months previously'"
Spot on - but if the fans can manage to come back again to try to rescue something with others you would hope the RFL can redeen themselves from some of the above by co-operating. While the game has changed tremendously from the 1963 rescue - even in the "Sky" age the fans are stil the root and core of the game. |
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| Quote ="Northernrelic"Spot on - but if the fans can manage to come back again to try to rescue something with others you would hope the RFL can redeen themselves from some of the above by co-operating. While the game has changed tremendously from the 1963 rescue - even in the "Sky" age the fans are stil the root and core of the game.'"
The RFL are co-operating , they are ensuring there will be a Bradford RL team playing at Odsal next season, the rest will be up to the fans |
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In my view the mismanagement, and living beyond our means, goes back beyond a single board and back to the Odsal settlement. I'm the first to admit that I cheered all our successes, along with everyone else, but it was all built on sand as income was never enough to cover expenses as, then chairman Caisley said, when in the T&A he blamed the lack fans for the earlier losses. To be honest I do have some sympathy, since he was basically correct and our crowd, imo, has always been 'ficklle', but clumsy statements like that did little to foster a more positive public reaction and anyway always come across a bit like a bad workman blaming his tools, when, in truth it was the then board's decisions which were at the heart of everything, rather than the public.
After that followed all the book balancing departures, in which finally, IIRC the then chief exec himself resigned after getting rid of the more expensive staff. Not sure about the exact chronology but after Peter Hood took over, there were mistakes for sure, but in fairness he was firefighting from the start trying to balance the expectation of fans used to WCC finals with the new financial realities, and I guess desperate times bring desperate measures. No excuse, of course.
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