I agree with all that tigertot .What a fantastic game,Sam Burgess? You can't say enough superlatives about him.Also about Sinfield,he threw 2 excellent passes for 2 England tries,it would be wrong to blame him

Thank God for some sense!

We have improved since the last world cup I am just unsure how much of that is down to McNamara. It helps we have more players playing in the NRL week in week out for a start.

Agreed. Burgess and Graham were outstanding. He'll be offered a new contract because there's nobody else of the required calibre who wants the job full time. It was a great effort yesterday. People can criticise his management of the squad and the press conference where he walked out was poor, but it is the responsibility of the players to behave.

Overall, though we lost to both Australia (comfortably) and New Zealand (narrowly). The halves have been poor and although he played better yesterday Sinfield has not demonstrated he should have been picked above Brough. His kicking game yesterday was shocking and the conversion he missed was regulation. There was no need to dart out to Johnson. Widdop was a massive improvement on Chase and it should have been Brough/Widdop from the start.

No one can say Brough would have played better, he never got the chance and we will never know how he would have done he may have been so far out of his depth, as been mentioned on another thread he is still looking for that dummy RTS sold him over a week ago.

He plays for scotland, we moan it ruining the game that players switch nationalties then we moan when we cant get a scot to play for us, he was a scot in the 2008 WC and he is in the 2013 WC no point going over it again and again.

I think the future england HB partnership should be based around Widdup hes played what 40-60 mins of the WC before playing against NZ and didnt look out of place one bit, that is my biggest nark with McBanana of him sticking with chase for so long, our previous games where dire and boring, yeah we won them but they weren't spectacles to please the eye. Struggle to think of a good partner but least there is time to look at other options, if eastmond does get back into RL then I think he maybe the missing link or they look at moving tomkins there, much as I dont like him i think he is a better SO/SH than a FB.

I think the halves and hooker face the biggest challenge stepping up from SL to International level. Brough is a brilliant player in SL but I'm not sure that his game would have stood up to the additional pressures of playing Aus or NZ. They have to do everything that bit quicker and more precise, less thinking time, fewer gaps to run through. Any half back that hasn't played in the NRL is going to struggle at that level.

Brough looked pretty good against New Zealand when I saw him.

I didn't think Brough was anything special before the world cup and maintain that opinion. I thought Sinfield played well apart from maybe at the very end of the game and the conversion miss but it's too easy to criticise from an armchair, on the field he created 2 of our tries. Seeing Widdop play I wonder if sticking with Chase was a mistake.

It's unfair to judge him against my couple of appearances at tag rugby.

Brough is the most over rated player in SL imo.

Yes he's a good player, but if he were half as good as some people seem to think he is, he'd be an England regular. The two muppets on Sky started the campaign for self publicity it like the Briers one and suddenly lots of people are banging the drum as though he were a world beater. You couldn't make it up!

Quite, did you manage two games? I thought you hobbled off after one?

IMO Brough’s one of those players who’s happiest when he’s getting the attention and can be number one. He’s had a lot of clubs which suggests he can take his bat home if he doesn’t feel the love. Is he good enough to warrant that at International level? He’s not exactly the next Andy Gregory is he? I think he’s overrated by many.

I expect Danny to rival Greg's club collection by the time he retires, he's on 5 as it is and two countries!

He'll have some way to go to beat Bobbie Goulding's ten clubs though!

Carl Ablett*

Has Ablett got a posse of pundits backing him to get picked every week? He needs to get Sadler/Schofield/Eddie & Stevo on board!

Being over rated is not so much about how good you are but more about talent versus hype. So to me whilst neanderthal head is a good player, he is without question over rated. Ablett is a good utility player domestically. I have my doubts that he's international but imo he's not over rated particularly.

People going on about over-rated players yet never complained when Rangi Chase was picked. He is more over-rated than Brough ever is.

In the last World Cup, England failed to qualify for the final, but at least it was overseas. This time, they failed to qualify for the final, but they had the advantage of being at home. Therefore, they have not improved in terms of standing.

Plus, thanks to bevvy-gate and McNamaras' walk out in press conferences and an apparent inability to control his players, he really did not do too well now did he?

I think Ablett does remarkably well with little natural talent, due to dedication & effort. I don't think he is quite international class, but then again he doesn't pick himself.

Ablett could have done a better job for England at centre than Cudjoe who was spectacularly unimpressive in every game during the World Cup.

I thought Cudjoe was excellent against Aus but deteriorated as the tournament progressed.

You're right there. That never came up.

I never actually compared the value of the players to the team and Brough is probably a more useful player in the squad than Ablett, but you can't be over rated if no-one is constantly saying how brilliant you are, and last time I looked no-one was putting him next in line to be god.

I totally agree. I have a huge amount of respect for any player who recognises their limitations but strives to be the hardest working.

All too often we indulge in misplaced bashing of players who aren't blessed with abundant talent but are trying genuinely hard (Paul Sykes?). I'd rather reserve my fire for incredibly talented but utterly feckless guys, such as Lee Briers.

If I have one criticism of Steve Mc on Saturday it's that he still had George Burgess on at the end of the game. At that stage he needed Ablett more than a prop. Mobile defender rather than strong ball carrier. George, who Bulls fans will remember, tires very quickly and he was always going to give a penalty away. Ablett could have taken the ball up as effectively at that stage and he would certainly have been more mobile. But it's only a small criticism.