Good post. I believe that budgets would have being adjusted, but they will be aiming for top 8, or a cup run for abit of extra revenue. That's probably true for 5+ teams in the comp and shouldn't be a negative, it should be a reason to back the season ticket drive.

As for money for the signings, when you set it out you can see where the money has come from. (Clearly making some assumptions, correct me if I'm way off!)
Diskin - Must have resigned on a much lower wage
Platt - On a good contract from a time gone by
Langley - One of the top earners at the club
Whitehead - Read £2,000 a week before, which must be up there.
Lulia - Again must be a top earner

The value - when you take into account just what it is that you are buying and letting yourself in for - is nearer 1 Carrot. And that is of pretty much any club. You're basically buying a large incinerator which will only run on cash.


Nope


Nope, no wages or tax bills are unpaid.


"Alleged"? What is the alternative explanation?


And what? So do the fans of pretty much every other club!

Who's denying the first 12 months haven't gone to plan? But as that plan was conceived by people who've never run a sporting club before, it's only natural that there'd be some teething troubles and I've never said what the remaining monies have been used for, if anything. This is another case of you making something up and calling it fact.

As for the missed salary payment, the club knew it was coming and tried to get the investment into the club to prevent it, unfortunately due to a banking error, this was delayed.

How can your basic formula be "spot on" if you ignore or discount large numbers of other incomes and only use a select few in order to justify your argument? That's like saying 2+2 = 1,003,254

As for the oversight regarding the tax bill, the club have already addressed that AND it was properly addressed at the time. If not then HMRC would have taken out a notice in the London Gazette, which is what they would legally be required to do in the course of pursuing a winding up order. This never happened, as the club paid the outstanding amount in full and within the time given to them by HMRC.

Teething troubles?




It's them pesky teething troubles eh




Regardless of if the Bulls had an income of 5 million or 25 million this year...FACT is it wasn't enough. Simple enough for you?



Them pesky teething troubles again....

BTW...forgetting to pay the bill is one of the lamest excuses I have ever heard but you will patently lap it up. The only excuse you've yet to use is that the Dog ate your homework.......

Right, so you can't refute my argument so you're resorting to being childish?

What would you call it then? First year running a sporting club. 2 problems regarding cash, both of which have been resolved.

So the Bulls haven't had enough money this year? So who do they currently owe money to?
It's not the players, they're paid.
It's not the HMRC, they're paid.

Who is oh mystic maker up of figures?

Come on, tell us all. Or perhaps you'd like to go make up a quote and attribute that to me instead?

In the original report of Omar's 900k investment it was clearly stated this was intended to cover ongoing costs for this year and next so the 1.74M (840+900) is intended to be over 2 years not 1. Although not ideal that he has to put that amount of money in, when Omar took the club over he talked about 2-3 years to get it running at a self sustaining level and we're 1 year into that. If he needs to do it again any time next year then there is something very wrong.

The purchase price was based upon the valuation placed on all assets & equipment by P&A.

This was £3m & agreed by Omar Khan.

He paid £225k for the assets. £150k on setting up & transferring them from Bradford Bulls Holdings to OK Bulls Ltd, with a further £75k on a charge which I believe has now been settled.

So no bills were left unpaid when they fell due?

Sutcliffe didn't set a totally unrealistic target of 10k season tickets & express huge disappointment on more than one occasion at hitting 6500?

The fact that the club has two loans shows how badly wrong the directors got it.

Omar Khan is trying to make himself out to be some sort of hero, simply because he has put an unspecified amount of money into a business, of which he is sole shareholder, to cover financial shortfalls brought about due to truly incompetent financial forecasting.

A board of 14? Never heard of such a number for a business of that size, plus assistant & deputy directors, whatever they are.

For the foreseeable, the Bulls will be one of the also rans in Super League, with Bradford City taking the lions share of spectators, sponsorship & media coverage in the city.

Which goes to show these things are cyclical, good for City to finally to get their act together and eventually drag themselves up a division instead of the perpetual free fall of the last decade. As for Super League, well that's pretty much down to the previous regime getting us into a huge mess at a time when the world fell in on it's arrse, but we're still at the top table and still have a team to watch.

I'm sure precious City remember the bad times too. Still, I'm also sure there are plenty rubbing their hands with faux concern.

hey...OK has invested the better part of 2 million in 11 months....let's see how he gets on next year and if he has another 2 mill handy

Anything which really does have a value of £3m, can be sold for something in that order. I could say my dog is valued at £3m, and to me it probably is, but as nobody would pay that, it is almost as meaningless. Nobody, but nobody, being remotely interested in buying my dog at anything approaching my valuation is all I need to know. I can boldly insist its value is £3m, but in any sense that actually matters, it's not.


You understood the point very well. Your new question doesn't make any sense. The relevant question is whether the bills were paid, and they were, albeit late.


The target was ambitious. "Totally unrealistic" is just your jaundiced view. We've had that number in the recent past and I'd assume that if we set an ambitious target of 10K then secretly we'd have been aiming for maybe 8K plus. Given the way in which the Bulls fans stuck together during the crisis and the goodwill that was evident at that time, I too am disappointed that this only materialised in 6.5k. I didn't expect 10k, but 6.5k was a bit poor to be honest. And why wouldn't GS be disappointed? And what is the relevance if he expressed his disappointment "on more than one occasion"?

"


Bullcrap. Loans are a normal part of company life. Show me a club which has no loans.


Where is he doing that, then?


The remark re the Bulls is pretty much stating the bleedin obvious, but wtf is the relevance of City to any of this?

[urlhttp://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/archive/2013/08/02/10587678.Bradford_Bulls_owner_Omar_Khan_injects___900_000_to_pay_wages/[/url



Just for the avoidance of doubt "this year and next" is the relevant bit in regards to your assertions of 2 Million per year.

i) I think he does have a point about "competing"* for fans and sponsors, etc. Even though there are probably hundreds who watch both any new fan or sponsor may be drawn to City at this time.

ii) what kind of dog?!



{*"competing" probably isn't the right word but it's the best I can think of atm!}

Hmmm. I don't personally think "new fans" choosing shall I got to City, or shall i go to Bulls, is a significant consideration. I don't think there's much decent sized sponsorship about, full stop, and can't think of any City have got that we might have got instead if we weren't crap. Didn't Provident come to us first, City second?

Media coverage? Is what it has always been. Obviously if you beat Premier League sides, and appearances at Wembley, get a lot of coverage but what does that matter, I mean what's it actually worth in cash? I'm really not seeing media coverage as a factor.

I opened an old box and had a look at the paper cuttings I kept from when we first won the league in the 1990s. Just match reports, same sort of area win or lose barring the Final. Wouldn't say that overall it made much difference to media coverage. And we have much more chance of a Wembley gig in 2014 than we have of being in the top 4.

First of the lot with regard to the 900k was the Wages owing from July......leaving 700k. You would expect that the next big expenditure would be Augusts wages and given Catalans and London where the 2 teams visiting, it's fair to say another 200k has been chipped off the "loan" leaving 500k.
September is the last month for wages (during the season) and other than the visit of Huddersfield this weekend, there has been no announcement regarding "new revenue streams" for this year, so your 900k is now 300k.
If I make allowances for a final SKY TV payment of 100k, then that figure goes up to 400k.

October is a quiet month, where players have left and stadium staff (excepting management) have all been laid off with view to re-hiring, so let's say 100k on October. November, the NEW players and existing squad return to training.....back up to say 150k a month for Nov, Dec and January.... so before a fan walks through the gates in February, there's another 550k in wages to be paid.

Now, I am not saying that other sponsors wont be found and other revenue streams wont open up, but all of the above stems from 900k being needed to, in part, pay July's wages.

Queue a few precious fans getting defensive and telling me of the millions in corporate and sponsorship revenue I have missed, but the reality is, where were these millions in July when you had wages to pay?

He hasn't invested anything like that amount of money.

Purchase price was £225k & he recently put an unconfirmed amount in, rumoured to be £900k. £1.26 at the very most.

Jesus wept.....it makes no difference if he put 1 million, 10 million or 50 million into the club...the fact remains that money was needed to pay the wages from July and no other revenue streams have been announced since, but wages still need to be paid.

I get it...everything at Bradford is fine.

On the contrary, it is always wise to try & use accurate figures. I didn't make any suggestion that there was not a real underlying problem that led to late wages & tax bill payments.

The club has claimed the Bartercard naming deal will generate a six figure annual sum. Very hard to believe when it has just 55,000 cardholders worldwide.

The Bulls are in big trouble. Interest & credibility is declining rapidly. The owners don't seem to be cutting their pattern according to the cloth they have. The club has big debts to service & and an owner who is too egotistical to allow anyone else part ownership.

Must be awful for you being so bitter!

Been looking at this thread for a couple of days.

At first I thought that Gutterfax was just trolling, but after reading some of his arguments, I'm starting to feel that his reasoning includes some thought.

The timing of the new 'pledge' and the deadline the club has created for itself makes me a little nervous. The money that the 1000 fans raise over the next week will be around £280k, this being pretty close to the monthly wage bill.

I would like to think that every move the club makes is an exciting new venture allowing fans to engage with their club, but I'm getting a repetitive impression that each move the club makes is done with the intention of surviving for 1 more month.

I'm concerned that these 'oversights' by the accounts department and Ryan are becoming a little regular, and the fact that the club refused to make a statement regarding last months wages makes me think there was a little more to that story.

Wasn't there Sunday (looks like I tore my ACL on Sat), but can anyone confirm if the new pledge allows the fans to still use the 3 month payment option (and still be included into the 1000). If not, then I will be concerned as this would indicate the club is not interested in the amount of fans on the terraces next year, but the amount of cash that 1000 fans can contribute over a 7 day period.

I'm all for supporting the cause and that, but after last year (when fans we're lied to and told to throw their money into a magical pot) I find myself looking a little deeper into some decisions/announcements. Surely I'm not the only one a little concerned??

Given the negativity running through most of my posts in recent years, an easy and excusable mistake to make.

You would hope not. I admire the way that FA and Roo2 defend their club....god knows I've eaten enough bridge dwellers on the London board over the years, but there is a series of events at Bradford that do point in a worrying direction.

nope, probably far from it, and as much as we dont like to read it, there are some uncomfortable elements in the posts from gutterfax when you compare it to last year and whats going on in RL at other clubs like wakey and london.

But, as there is little I can do other than what I do every season, I will be doing it again - buy the season ticket, buy some merchandise around xmas and the start of the new season, turn up to as many games as I can afford to home and away (dont live anywhere near Bradford), and hope for the best, or at least some entertainment on the pitch.


It is worrying, but the people running the club now are not the ones who lied to us last year. Therefore at the moment Im prepared to belive most of what Im told, and give Mr Khan all the respect he deserves for putting his money in (where would we be without him?) and hope for the best, but with a touch of waryness, and put most of the issues down to new people climbing out of a hole that is deeper than they expected....but nothing will surprise me.

1. Where has the £200k wages figure come from? We clearly are well below the cap, and the admin costs are massively less than the previous regime, so please detail the 12x£200k = £2400k annual wage bill.
2. detail the £840k investment for me please, I seem to have missed this bit of news. The detail I want is who the £840k was paid to. So, for example, paying £225k to the RECEIVERS is not a cash injection into the CLUB.
4. Loans. when were they taken out by OK Bulls, how much, what were the repayment terms, and if OKB are in default, how long for and totals unpaid? and what have the bank done about it?
4. note that I am not being defensive, merely asking you to evidence your comments with reference to external sources .
5. Yes, you are dazzlingly observant about the gap between one season and another, I really could not have thought of that one. (cue much self -flagellation and -abuse for being so STUPID as to not have realised this fact) However, to anybody experienced in the financial management of a business, the signs were there several months, ago as was the knowledge that OKB was doing something about it.

So if you are so clever, why didnt you make your stupid futile comments three months ago, instead of reacting like a pbrain to the news of a dismissal of a winding up petition? Do you know that (thanks mainly to football clubs protecting the grossly overpaid footballers from all other creditors including HMRC) that sports clubs are jumped on by HMRC, hence the RFL (not superleague) interest in ensuring all clubs meet their commitments?

7. not your comment, gutterf*ck, someone else's, but I might as well deal with two onanissts at the same time. "Omar Khan is trying to make himself out to be some sort of hero". I have seen Ryan make the statement that OK is putting money in, not OK himself. I have seen Suttcliffe say that OK is not a sugar daddy, he has limited resources. Please show me where OK himself says that he is a hero. for the record, I do think he is a hero that needs the support of 10000 season ticket holders. and also for the record, I am not OK, I cannot cook a curry to save my life.

davyz999 yes as a Bulls fan i was concerned 3 months ago unlike the gutterpress, but look at what you are saying yourself, that the annual wages bill is £3360K. it just about hit that figure in the precap days when we had full stadiums and won the prizemoney for worldclub championships etc etc etc. Yes, be concerned, but dont get dragged down to the level of the gutter.

Where is Adeybull while all this is going on?

Bitter? About what?