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| So is there still a conspiracy to relegate Wakefield?
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| Quote ="debaser"So basically it's Leeds' fault that we are in this mess?
I always knew it, bl**dy L**ds.'"
Well no, its whoever made the decision to sign Harris without fully looking into the contracts and agreements that were already in place.
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| Quote ="tigertot"Everything bad in the world ever stems from electing Thatcher in 1979. FACT.'"
Some could argue that is when the country changed for the better but lets not go there....
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| Quote ="Adeybull"I'll not embarrass the mods by posting what they actually requested of me, on several occasions. And "warnings" was admittedly a bit strong - they were actually requests, hence Christian's "roll eyes" comment I suspect?
But the gist of what they asked me was to try and avoid giving a certain specific problem poster any excuse to fire off. Which I duly did. '"
Thank you for that. I was feeling a tad misrepresented but I appreciate you clarifying.
Quote ="Adeybull"Even though said problem poster continued to involve himself in matters that did not involve him and had nothing whatsoever to do with him. And, even then, I refrained from responding, despite repeated provocations.
Sadly, the end result of continuing appeasement is that the good guys eventually get dispirited and fed up, and go away. And you can see above what sort of nonsense you get left with.'"
The inaction and appeasement that people perceive to be happening, honestly isn't. I can assure you that PMs fly relentlessly between the mods and the people you may think are being given free reign. I know for a fact that the person you mainly refer to feels quite the opposite and is aggrieved at some of the warnings and bans he has accrued.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"I'll not embarrass the mods by posting what they actually requested of me, on several occasions. And "warnings" was admittedly a bit strong - they were actually requests, hence Christian's "roll eyes" comment I suspect?
But the gist of what they asked me was to try and avoid giving a certain specific problem poster any excuse to fire off. Which I duly did. Even though said problem poster continued to involve himself in matters that did not involve him and had nothing whatsoever to do with him. And, even then, I refrained from responding, despite repeated provocations.
Sadly, the end result of continuing appeasement is that the good guys eventually get dispirited and fed up, and go away. And you can see above what sort of nonsense you get left with.'"
Not even an explanation of why you feel the need to verbally abuse and/or try to censor others. Good guy? Aye right.
No doubt I am the un-named "problem poster" you referred to, and, lets be clear on this, I take people like you to task when you act all "superior" to others, think you have the right to criticise everyone else but nobody is allowed to answer back. Sadly, the last time you got offensive it took me quite some time to ensure that you got a friendly message from the mods because one of them seemed unable to want to deal with you. I wonder why this is?
It was only when one fair minded mod interjected that you got a message (I suspect) but, even then, after I had had a warning for pointing out your abuse and frequent AUP breaches, rather than the offender being brought to task earlier on in the piece.
Don't kid yourself. There is more of a chance that "Christians'" rolly eyes comment was more at utter embarrassment of your comment than anything else.
People like you seem to think that it is only people who get your "seal of approval" that can post on here. I reallly have no idea why? Why on earth anyone would want the Adey seal of approval is a mystery to me. Perhaps they would rather have you inside the tent spitting out than outside the tent spitting in?
Anyway, this post will most likely get removed as I am being critical of the uncriticisable. Thankfully, there are more and more people who can see you for what you really are Adey. You can fool some people some of the time.........
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| Adeybull is a bit pompous and self-aggrandising.
mystic eddie only seems to show up when things go bad just to say "I told you so".
There, done.
Stop bickering like children, no-one cares.
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| Quote ="hindle xiii"Adeybull is a bit pompous and self-aggrandising.
=#FF0000mystic eddie only seems to show up when things go bad just to say "I told you so".
There, done.
Stop bickering like children, no-one cares.'"
In fairness, I would have needed to warn you beforehand what was going to happen before I could come on to say that "I told you so."
Apart from that, spot on.
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| Quote ="Adeybull"Right. These are questions I want clear YES/NO answers to:
1 - Was the admistration primarily intended as a means of removing Khan from the picture?
Quote Khan was already out of the picture. BB2014 failed to take over, which would have removed Khan and Marc Green put the business into administration to protect his debenture.'"
2 - Did the RFL work closely with and provide advice to Moore & Co, regarding bringing this about?
Quote Bringing what about? Whitcut was Khan's bag man & was working for him in all he did.'"
3 - Did the RFL work closely with Moore & Co, or at least did they provide active and constructive advice, regarding entering administration?
Quote BB2014 was anew company set up to possibly take over from OK Bulls. Why would the RFL advise a new co on administration?'"
4 - Were the RFL involved in any way in the setting up of the (ultimately aborted) prepack?
Quote When did this happen?'"
5 - Did the RFL provide advice, input, guidance or indications of likely outcomes to Moore & Co, which they relied on in setting up the prepack?
Quote Who was the administrator for this prepack that didn't happen?'"
6 - Did the RFL tell Moore & Co - or at least did they leave them with a clear understanding - that there would be no points deduction for entering administration and immediately exiting through a prepack?
Quote An act of insolvency incurs a penalty under RFL operational rules. BB2014 was incorporated on 12/11/2014. Why would this be set up if there was aprepack plan?'"
7 - Did the RFL see or request business plans and/or financial projections from Moore & Co prior to administration?
Quote BB2014 submitted a business plan & forecast to the RFL wit the intent of taking over from OK Bulls'"
8 - Did Moore & Co propose and intend to repay all the non-Khan creditors, and if so is there demonstrable proof that this was intent not just words?
Quote This will have been part of the BB2014 business plan & forecast.'"
9 - Did the RFL give Moore & Co full opportunity to present and discuss their business plans, before ruling on the points deduction and the (debilitating) ongoing special measures?
Quote Green placed OK Bulls into admin on 31st January & points were deducted on 25th February '"
10 - Had the club new players lined up ready to join, whose signings were stymied by the continuing special measures?
Quote When did these special measures begin?'"
11 - Were Moore & Co given any prior indication that special measures could or would continue after the administration?
Quote The administration that they weren't involved in? Or one that seems to be a ffigment of your imagination?'"
12 - Did the RFL impose a 6 point penalty not a 4 point penaly because they had determined that NO creditors would actiually be repaid?
Quote Administartors statement of affairs clearly states there's nothing to distribute to creditors, so 6 points deducted. '"
Maybe we will get answers in the formal report. I rather doubt it,though. Others may be content to let the matter lie and "move on". Not me. I will not be content until I know the answers to the above questions.
Quote Perhaps you need to focus on who is actually at fault, i.e the previous owners of BB Holdings & OK Bulls?'"
I suspect there are people who know where the bodies are buried, who hitherto have largely kept their own counsel. I would very much invite and urge any such people to now put in the public domain any (further) information that might cast light on anything that has gone on.
Quote Ryan Whitcut has already made several unsubstantiated claims. mark Moore did the same. Perhaps you need to ask them what their actual intent was & how they proposed to finance their plans?'"
I suggest that, only when we know the answers to these questions (and doubtless some others that I have not included) will ANYONE be in any position to judge whether the destruction of the Bulls over recent months has been justified, unavoidable, inevitable, accidental, criminal, or just plain reprehensible?
Quote The destruction of the Bulls in recent months? Who are you suggesting destroyed them, and through what actions?'"
And who is actually to blame for the destruction, so they can be judged by history accordingly.
Quote Honestly, you really need to get a grip.'"
'"
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| Quote ="Bullseye"So is there still a conspiracy to relegate Wakefield?'"
I imagine they still think there is, yes.
In fact, they won't like the fact that they are not being hard done to, they will have to find something else to be paranoid about.
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| Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Rhetoric waffle.'"
Do you have family or friends? Because you don't exactly come across as even remotely possible to talk to.
"What do you want for tea, Dweeb?"
[iWhy? Who said anything about having food in the house? Can you even prove you can cook?[/i
"Pint, Dweeb?"
[iYou must be more specific, there are dozens of pint glasses behind the bar, which one are you talking about?[/i
Adeybull's questions weren't even directed at you, so why take the effort to not not not answer them?
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| i see even now, LeagueDweeb is trying to bluff his way through. I liked him better when he was 'hacked'.
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| The problem with all that pointless waffle you've just put up there dweeb, is that you haven't answered any of the questions.
That level of evasion, or answering a question with a question, is the sort of bollox that politicians try when they're talking to Paxman.
If the answer to any of those questions was No - you should just say so.
The fact that you can't/won't say no, is evasion. Which is standard politician fare when they either 1) don't know or 2) know the answer is yes, but are confident that there won't be any evidence of wrongdoing so can brazen it out.
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| Quote ="hindle xiii"Adeybull is a bit pompous and self-aggrandising.
mystic eddie only seems to show up when things go bad just to say "I told you so".
There, done.
Stop bickering like children, no-one cares.'"
Adeybull needs to realise the Bulls are in a mess because of the previous two sets of owners. His fixation with blaiming the RFL is Roswell like in it's level of conspiracy.
The Bulls have just under half a season to turn things round. Everyone at the club now knows where hey stand on points. There is no more uncertainty. Green has said he's not going to run for the hills.
Isn't it time to focus minds on beating Salford & picking up as many wins as possible to close the gap on Wakefield? They face London next, which should secure them two more league poijts. The Bulls face London in the final game of the season, which should secure them two points.
Beating a struggling Salford side is totally feasible, effectively meaning a 4 point gap given the predicted London results.
Is that really too much to overcome in a 10 period when facing several teams that are currently outside the top 8?
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| Dont forget guy,s wakey have tried their best to help you by giving you four points, all the best for the rest of the season.
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| Quote ="hindle xiii"Do you have family or friends? Because you don't exactly come across as even remotely possible to talk to.
"What do you want for tea, Dweeb?"
[iWhy? Who said anything about having food in the house? Can you even prove you can cook?[/i
"Pint, Dweeb?"
[iYou must be more specific, there are dozens of pint glasses behind the bar, which one are you talking about?[/i
Adeybull's questions weren't even directed at you, so why take the effort to not not not answer them?'"
You don't seem to be picking up on the fact that Adeybull's questions are based on a pre determined conspiracy theory.
Anyone can frame questions to try and substantiate a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theorists never move on because they are unable to accept reality.
Who is supposed to answer these questions? Who are they aimed at? Why doesn't he get in touch with those he seems to think are responsible for answers?
Honestly, it really is laughable.
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| Quote ="hindle xiii"There, done.
Stop bickering like children, no-one cares.'"
Exactly. All bickering to be done in PMs from now on.
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| Quote ="hindle xiii"Do you have family or friends? Because you don't exactly come across as even remotely possible to talk to.
"What do you want for tea, Dweeb?"
[iWhy? Who said anything about having food in the house? Can you even prove you can cook?[/i
"Pint, Dweeb?"
[iYou must be more specific, there are dozens of pint glasses behind the bar, which one are you talking about?[/i
Adeybull's questions weren't even directed at you, so why take the effort to not not not answer them?'"
When someone asks questions about things there is no actual evidence of, how can those questions be answered? That's how conspiracy theories get legs and perpetuate for years, thereby allowing conspiracy theorists to perpetuate their conspiracies.
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| Quote ="LeagueDweeb"When someone asks questions about things there is no actual evidence of, how can those questions be answered? That's how conspiracy theories get legs and perpetuate for years, thereby allowing conspiracy theorists to perpetuate their conspiracies.'"
Did you or did you not Kill Princess Diana in that Parisian tunnel? And were you ordered to do so by Prince Philip?
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| Quote ="LeagueDweeb"When someone asks questions about things there is no actual evidence of, how can those questions be answered? That's how conspiracy theories get legs and perpetuate for years, thereby allowing conspiracy theorists to perpetuate their conspiracies.'"
As ever your contorted response to a list of specific question, done in your inimicable and impenetrable " a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" quoting style, is pure waffle, so why bother, when not a single "response" actually made any attempt to provide answers?
Things there are no evidence of? Allright then I'll start you with an easy one. (And there are lots)
Green's company appointed an administrator to come in.
We know that the minute he came in, he also "sold" the business in a pre-pack (to BB2014)
BB2014 had a temporary licence to run the club in SL.
This evidence proves that the entry into administration and immediate exit of the business to a new owner involved a significant degree of pre-planning. BB2014 couldn't have been the buyers under the pre-pack unless they had previously thrashed out the details and documents in advance with the not-yet-appointed administrator. Nor can they have bought the business unless they knew they would be accepted by the RFL to run it.
None of the above is a conspiracy theory.
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| Quote ="Pumpetypump"Did you or did you not Kill Princess Diana in that Parisian tunnel? And were you ordered to do so by Prince Philip?'"
Quote ="LeagueDweeb"Do you have any proof that Princess Diana ever existed? Prince Philip acted in accordance with his duties as Duke of York.'"
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| Quote ="altofts wildcat"I dont want to go into the ins and outs of it all but I think the demise of the Bulls can be traced back to the signing of Iestyn Harris and the compo you had to pay. It seems from an outsiders point of view that everything bad has stemmed from there.'"
I would agree 100%, and it wasn't just the compo, though I am sure that was one of the bigger nails in one of our series of coffins. We never recovered from it.
Shame we didn't do a deal with Leeds then quickly done an admin shuffle - when we still had semblance of a decent team. Six points then would of course have been irrelevant, except in terms of league position in the playoffs, which I think would have been a price worth paying.
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| Lets just make it nice and simple, shall we?
There is an alleged scenario, that we have all seen elucidated in part or in the whole by various protagonists and in various places, that runs something like:
1 - RFL (and, probably, necessity) want to see a change of ownership of the Club.
2 - RFL work with (and maybe advise and encourage) Moore & co to help them bring that about. This requires administration. (And, remember, administration is a rememdy not just for insolvency, but for intractible ownership disputes).
3 - Whilst this is in progress, RFL get Bulls vote for the new league structure proposals - proposals that some major club owners strongly and publically object to. Where the Bradford vote might just have been crucial.
4 - As soon as the deed is done to remove the previous owner, RFL withdraw their support for Moore & co, and leave them (and the Club) hung out to dry.
5 - This despite statements, including in the Adminsitrator's report, that Moore & Co intended to settle with the creditors. Statements that may or may not have been backed up by genuine intent, or by the means to do so.
Given that the RFL and Moore & Co have put out conflicting versions of what happened, plus various public and private contributions from various individual protagonsists, it is understandably very hard for an objective observer to form a reasoned view as to what actually happened - and why. Hence the ongoing debate, and feeling of injustice in some quarters.
If both sides could agree on the answers to the simple yes/no questions that I asked - plus a few more that others will doubtless think of - we could get the matter resolved very quickly indeed. Either something like outlined in the alleged scenario DID happen - in which case what has been done to the club would surely be manifestly unfair, or worse? - or it did NOT happen - in which case the club has suffered no more than it deserved, so tough - live with it.
I want to know which it is, since I really do not know. So we can indeed put an end to the conspiracy theories (or, for the conspiracy theorists, to the sycophantic acceptance of everything the RFL says) and have closure and move on.
All the disingenuous evasion by the likes of Dweeb does is adds fuel to the fire for the conspiracy theorists.
A dozen agreed yes or no answers - simple yes or no - and it gets put to bed for ever.
What is so hard about, or wrong in asking for that?
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| Why would the RFL "hang you out to dry" when they have previously bent over backwards to help you out with Iconicgate.
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| Quote ="debaser"I imagine they still think there is, yes.
In fact, they won't like the fact that they are not being hard done to, they will have to find something else to be paranoid about.'"
Not me mate I'm delighted as it was the only realistic chance of us staying up - that and it also being the only fair and just decision that any decent person could arrive at.
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| Quote ="vastman"Not me mate I'm delighted as it was the only realistic chance of us staying up - that and it also being the only [ufair [/uand just decision that any decent person could arrive at.'"
Was it? So ALL clubs that go into administration have SIX points deducted? Is that what you are saying?
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